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Torque Setting


Eden Rover

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Hi All,

I am new to the NC750XA and loving the comfort and agiiity after riding retros for many years.

But, can anyone give me a guide to the torque settings. The manual doesnt seem that clear, or maybe thats just me!

Cheers.

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trisaki

What do you want torque settings for  can check in my wshop manual  tomorrow  for you  - year and model ? 

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Rocker66
31 minutes ago, Eden Rover said:

Hi,

Model: 750xa  2019

Hi welcome to the forum. Care to tell us a bit more about yourself such as where your located and a bit about your biking history.

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Hi,

Been riding since 1976 on a mix of Japs & Indian Royal Enfields. Early on mainly for commuting then onto leisure riding. Retired last year to Norfolk from Cumbria.

 

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Slowboy
On 03/11/2020 at 10:03, Eden Rover said:

Hi All,

I am new to the NC750XA and loving the comfort and agiiity after riding retros for many years.

But, can anyone give me a guide to the torque settings. The manual doesnt seem that clear, or maybe thats just me!

Cheers.

welcome along. If you don’t mind me asking, torque settings for what? To cover all of them is between 100 and 300 settings if you mean every fastener on the bike The easiest way is to buy the proper workshop manual from Honda. The owners manual provided with the bike mostly does not have the information.
Either that or slip Ted a tenner to become a supporter then that information is available to you through here via the supporters area.

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Hi,

Apologies for lack of clarity Its the torque control facilty mounted on the bars. Can be set to ; 1, 2 or off. Presumably limits the torque impact to the drive wheel? But would be interested to know how this is effected, and does anyone really use it?

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Andy m

Its ASR, so called traction help. When the front ABS sensor reads lower than the rear it kills the spark or over rides the throttle (if throttle by wire) until they match again. Stops you spinning up the rear by giving it a big handful. The numbers are just some representation of how much it'll let the rear spin before in intervenes. 2 is more interventions. 

 

Honestly, I'd set at 2 and if it doesn't annoy you by kicking in (because we all trained without it and aren't clueless Americans who just hop on and treat the throttle like a switch) leave it alone. If annoying (probably can't do wheelies with it on) turn it down. No idea why they fit the switch, we've had this on trucks (where you do need it because you are much more remote from the wheels) for 40 years and one setting works fine. 

 

Andy

Edited by Andy m
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What Andy says. 54bhp is hardly going to cause massive wheel spin. I just leave it in level 2, which it defaults to anyway each time the ignition is switched on. It’s the same system as on my Crossrunner, which has nearly twice the power. I’ve only seen the warning light briefly flash once on that, at level 2. Frankly the NC750X doesn’t need it assuming one knows how to ride properly.

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Rocker66
31 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Its ASR, so called traction help. When the front ABS sensor reads lower than the rear it kills the spark or over rides the throttle (if throttle by wire) until they match again. Stops you spinning up the rear by giving it a big handful. The numbers are just some representation of how much it'll let the rear spin before in intervenes. 2 is more interventions. 

 

Honestly, I'd set at 2 and if it doesn't annoy you by kicking in (because we all trained without it and aren't clueless Americans who just hop on and treat the throttle like a switch) leave it alone. If annoying (probably can't do wheelies with it on) turn it down. No idea why they fit the switch, we've had this on trucks (where you do need it because you are much more remote from the wheels) for 40 years and one setting works fine. 

 

Andy

You mean clueless American riders like Wayne Rainey Kevin Schwantz Colin Edwards and Kenny Roberts. I’m sure that there are many American riders who are just as caple or dare I say it better than you and that there clueless riders of many nationalities

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fred_jb
1 hour ago, Xactly said:

What Andy says. 54bhp is hardly going to cause massive wheel spin. I just leave it in level 2, which it defaults to anyway each time the ignition is switched on. It’s the same system as on my Crossrunner, which has nearly twice the power. I’ve only seen the warning light briefly flash once on that, at level 2. Frankly the NC750X doesn’t need it assuming one knows how to ride properly.

 

Funny how people think the only reason for breaking traction is the amount of engine power available, and conclude that lower powered bikes don't need so-called traction control systems except to make up for poor riding skills exhibited by "clueless" riders.  In reality there is another factor, which is the amount of grip available between the rear tyre and the road surface, something which the rider has little control over, and which can vary widely and suddenly, and can catch you out regardless of available power.  So poor road surfaces, water, diesel spills, mud, gravel or dust, worn tyres, etc, can all produce conditions where traction control can be helpful, or even a life saver.

 

Sorry to anyone who has heard this from me before, but I nearly came off my NC (pre traction control model) when leaving a junction on a poorly maintained Spanish road where concrete patches to the road surface had worn mirror smooth and were concealed by a layer of dust.   I wasn't even gunning it with all the measly 47 bhp available, just ambling away from the junction at low speed!  It fishtailed and nearly went over on one side and then the other, needing forceful kicks to keep it upright. You could argue that I should have taken more notice of the surface, and maybe that's true, but it happened at the end of a long tiring day, and in any case it was not obvious - it was only when I went back and had a really close look at the surface that I could see what had caused the problem.

 

Why would you not want a safety net for such situations?

 

Edited by fred_jb
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I doubt that traction control would have made any difference in that situation, any more than ABS would have allowed braking. If there’s no grip there’s no grip. 

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Andy m

ASR is exactly like ABS (it is effectively a freebie with ABS). It reacts quickly and goes to but not beyond the combination of tyre and road surface to transmit power. Just like ABS, it is a 100 mph design unlike our 14 mph monkey brains. Exactly like ABS though there is the riders reactions to consider and how crude these systems are. An untrained road rider, and no amount of @Rocker66 's endless wokeness will change the fact the Americans do not train their road riders or have staged licensing , can do a number of things. They can get used to it, treat the throttle like a switch then when the sensor airgap opens up go off the back of the now out of control machine. The throttle response is crude, so pull out of a junction, find the patch of Diesel then sit with a wide open throttle and acceleration that would shame a 2CV while a 44 tonner bares down on you. You can change the tyres and upset it. When it intervenes you can look down at the engine to see what the unexpected activity is, wiggle the throttle and run off the road while doing so when it finds grip and does what you asked for. 

 

Just like the ABS and your crash helmet and the airbag on your car, this is a safety system. Everytime it intervenes you were one blown fuse away from potentially coming off. Fitting buttons and advertising modes along with the number of USB ports detracts from this, as does calling it Traction control (traction is controlled by navvies, tyre makers and whatever you believe decides the weather). The trained rider will make mistakes and yes ASR will save some of them, but it is no road magnet. 

 

Like ABS, get familiar with it. Let it do what it does and look where you want to go. Do not expect miracles. 

 

Andy

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13 minutes ago, Andy m said:

ASR is exactly like ABS (it is effectively a freebie with ABS). It reacts quickly and goes to but not beyond the combination of tyre and road surface to transmit power. Just like ABS, it is a 100 mph design unlike our 14 mph monkey brains. Exactly like ABS though there is the riders reactions to consider and how crude these systems are. An untrained road rider, and no amount of @Rocker66 's endless wokeness will change the fact the Americans do not train their road riders or have staged licensing , can do a number of things. They can get used to it, treat the throttle like a switch then when the sensor airgap opens up go off the back of the now out of control machine. The throttle response is crude, so pull out of a junction, find the patch of Diesel then sit with a wide open throttle and acceleration that would shame a 2CV while a 44 tonner bares down on you. You can change the tyres and upset it. When it intervenes you can look down at the engine to see what the unexpected activity is, wiggle the throttle and run off the road while doing so when it finds grip and does what you asked for. 

 

Just like the ABS and your crash helmet and the airbag on your car, this is a safety system. Everytime it intervenes you were one blown fuse away from potentially coming off. Fitting buttons and advertising modes along with the number of USB ports detracts from this, as does calling it Traction control (traction is controlled by navvies, tyre makers and whatever you believe decides the weather). The trained rider will make mistakes and yes ASR will save some of them, but it is no road magnet. 

 

Like ABS, get familiar with it. Let it do what it does and look where you want to go. Do not expect miracles. 

 

Andy

 

Sometimes Andy your sarcastic, know it all  responses are so damned righteous that they move me to the edge of rage and some times your sarcastic, know it all  responses are so damned righteous they have me spitting coffee at the screen in fits of laughter. The deciding factor on which way I go must be me as you rarely change your tone, I'll try to tone both reactions down a little in anticipation of reading your posts :angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:D:D:D:D

 

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If you think Andy’s posts are funny when read they’re better when spoken! We need to do the Ace Café thing again..  :niceone:

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fred_jb
1 hour ago, Xactly said:

I doubt that traction control would have made any difference in that situation, any more than ABS would have allowed braking. If there’s no grip there’s no grip. 

 

I disagree, mainly for the reason that Andy alludes to - namely speed of reaction.  The ASR system can sense wheel slip and cut the throttle before things get out control. By the time my mere human/monkey brain reacted it was almost too late! 😄

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Andy m

 

16 minutes ago, Tex said:

We need to do the Ace Café thing again..  :niceone:

Absolutely. Thought we were doing Dehavilland's, Vickers/Brooklands or the Tanks once the current unpleasantness is over? 

1 minute ago, fred_jb said:

 

I disagree, mainly for the reason that Andy alludes to - namely speed of reaction.  The ASR system can sense wheel slip and cut the throttle before things get out control. By the time my mere human/monkey brain reacted it was almost too late! 😄

Absolutely.

 

There is a reason its a slow vehicle speed system though, by which I mean great at stopping tourist busses at ski resorts crushing people in slow motion swings rather than pulling out of junctions where you really should have waited. When you chop the throttle (back in 1980 it was a cylinder that lengthened the throttle cable, now it kills the spark or injector pump) you get engine braking. The feedback loop needs to stabilise before you can try the power again and the engine ECU needs to get its ducks in a row and find a mixture that will burn. With the clutch and engine on the CANBUS you can be less crude (power blending rather than a crude chop) and turn a loop that may take a full second to try the power again into a tenth of a second cycle. A second seems longer where the throttle is not responding and the barriers are coming down on the level crossing. The faster the cycle the less driver counter reaction and the sooner you get to a stable power setting. Bikes don't have this yet unless Honda have skipped three generations from the system on the NC in 2016 and current CB500. 

 

Fast to save you from falling off as the back wheel spins, possibly slow to return control. The most common complaint is where the ASR prevents the jacknife then something the driver thinks he could have outrun ploughs into the trailer from behind. Bad driving either way of course. 

 

Andy

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Hi All,

Thanks for all the responses, even the banter!

Thanks Andy for clearing up the query, makes sense Shan't be doing wheelies, but guess it could be usefull if I leave black top.

 

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3 hours ago, Trev said:

 

Sometimes Andy your sarcastic, know it all  responses are so damned righteous that they move me to the edge of rage and some times your sarcastic, know it all  responses are so damned righteous they have me spitting coffee at the screen in fits of laughter. The deciding factor on which way I go must be me as you rarely change your tone, I'll try to tone both reactions down a little in anticipation of reading your posts :angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:angry::D:D:D:D:D

 

Is there an ABS/TC device you need? :)

3 hours ago, Tex said:

If you think Andy’s posts are funny when read they’re better when spoken! We need to do the Ace Café thing again..  :niceone:

Good idea.

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4 hours ago, MatBin said:

Is there an ABS/TC device you need? :)

 

Absolutely not :thumbsup:

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Andy m
13 hours ago, Eden Rover said:

, but guess it could be usefull if I leave black top.

 

 

Not really, this is why calling it Traction Control is poor. It isn't there to help, it's there to stop you starting a doughnut and ending up on your face. It's only available action is to cut the throttle and the control loop is based on road conditions, microsurface grip between rubber and tarmac.

 

Place it on a surface like sand or fresh snow where the microstructure of the rubber only serves as a holder for a lubricant and the settings are wrong. It'll just kill the throttle and stop you moving.

 

What you want to do is spin up up the tyre so digs in a little, either getting to something harder further down or just increasing it's own contact area. The grip is at the level of the tyre tread acting like a gearwheel in it's own rut. Car and truck systems have off road modes, they detect you are in low gear and the first 10 ASR cycles were unsuccessful and maybe the diff is working overtime or the heater is set to 13. The amount of spin is then allowed to increase. These very basic bike systems are not that smart. The off switch is there so when it gets annoying you can revert to manual.

 

Andy

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