Valve clearance question

[Pete Crowther 83]

5 hours ago, slowboy said:

No, but then I was taught in a Royal Naval Dockyard on big old diesels, and small fire pumps. Setting the valves on a Rover gas turbine fire pump was confusing though😎😂😂

 

And it came from a BMW forum, so they probably had to specify platinum feelers that were gold plated for better “feel” as well 😂😂

 

   That brings back memories: In my early days I was a marine engineer. Going on watch and checking the machinery, included our Mirlees gen sets with exposed valve gear. The standard check WHEN RUNNING, was to rotate each pushrod with a spin or the hand. If it rotated and was cool (ish) it was fine. If it was stiff and hot, tight clearances, time to switch to gen set two and adjust. Yes, health and safety  hadn't been invented then! Happy days though.

[listener 11,146]

2 hours ago, Grumpy old man said:

Come on who hasn't done something stupid in that split second without thinking?

 

Well, I've done plenty of stupid things but none were down to brainless buffoonery. And none put me within touching distance of the Pearly Gates! 

 

My only 'near death' cock-up (being zapped by 240V mains) was someone else's bloody fault.

[Steve Case 939]

Hold hard, when you say oil heads youre refering to the R1100/R1150 engines.

The rocker was common to both valves so why would it need 27 feeler gauges or whatever it was.

Maybe its from the German service booken, where you have to stand at attention facing North to adjust them!

[Slowboy 20,324]

4 hours ago, Pete Crowther said:

 

   That brings back memories: In my early days I was a marine engineer. Going on watch and checking the machinery, included our Mirlees gen sets with exposed valve gear. The standard check WHEN RUNNING, was to rotate each pushrod with a spin or the hand. If it rotated and was cool (ish) it was fine. If it was stiff and hot, tight clearances, time to switch to gen set two and adjust. Yes, health and safety  hadn't been invented then! Happy days though.

Oh yes. Doing Kistler gauge compression readings on a 16 cylinder “Valenta” Powered Gen Set (I think, it was a long time ago) running continuously at speed in an enclosed compartment. At least we wore ear deafenders, 😂😂😂

[Pete Crowther 83]

16 minutes ago, slowboy said:

Oh yes. Doing Kistler gauge compression readings on a 16 cylinder “Valenta” Powered Gen Set (I think, it was a long time ago) running continuously at speed in an enclosed compartment. At least we wore ear deafenders, 😂😂😂

 

   Sadly, in my day. 69 onwards, nobody wore ear defenders in the engine room. The gen sets were pretty noisy but taking temperatures on the main engine turbocharger flat was only marginally quieter than nuclear war. Might just partly explain why hearing is below par these days. Valenta engines were pretty good bits of kit.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Pete Crowther

[Steve698 11]

Ok so I am part way through my tasks on this bike I have the fork legs out, the coolant emptied and the rad out, oil and filters changed out and am ready to set about the valve clearance adjustment. Maybe I should stop looking at info on this job but I am a bit of a belt and braces type and like to know exactly what I'm doing before I start. My latest question is the alignment at the camshaft maintenance inspection hole - I see two marks around the hole, one at the top and one at the bottom I have taken it that these are the marks I am supposed to be aligning the 1 or 2 against and it seems to be general consensus the the bottom one is the correct one to use. However I have just found more information that states the 1 and 2 marks should be aligned with a small square cut out at the base of the threads, I do see that cut out but does this have any bearing or is this just more mis-information ? I would post pictures but have no idea how to do it here as most other forums there is a link to "add a picture" but that isn't present here .Hope just words explain what I mean.

[Steve698 11]

Doh got it, just took a closer look and the notches are inline with the marks on the casing - that makes sense, whoever designed the placement of that inspection cover or more to the point the frame needs to be spoken to, the frame runs right across it, you can't see much and it makes it really difficult to remove and no doubt get back on.

[Xactly 5,318]

On 27/11/2020 at 17:06, Steve Case said:

Hold hard, when you say oil heads youre refering to the R1100/R1150 engines.

The rocker was common to both valves so why would it need 27 feeler gauges or whatever it was.

Maybe its from the German service booken, where you have to stand at attention facing North to adjust them!

Yes, and the R850 engine. It wasn’t the Germans who advocated the use of four feeler gauges, it was the Merikans. Their theory (not mine) was that because each pair of valves shared a rocker shaft adjusting one rocker would influence the accuracy of the setting on the other because of wear on the shaft. I had a go at rubbishing this idea but they were adamant (didn’t he do pop songs or some such?). Nevertheless, I did try it but TBH (quelle surprise) it made no discernible difference...

The Merikans do tend to overthink things sometimes. The oil heads weren’t particularly highly tuned - I didn’t even bother re-setting the timing after changing a HES, a job I could do at the roadside. As long as the HES plate was put back in the same position it wasn’t necessary and anyway the engines were designed to run on rubbish fuel as well the decent (relative term) stuff we got, so sensitive they weren’t.

[Slowboy 20,324]

2 hours ago, Xactly said:

Yes, and the R850 engine. It wasn’t the Germans who advocated the use of four feeler gauges, it was the Merikans. Their theory (not mine) was that because each pair of valves shared a rocker shaft adjusting one rocker would influence the accuracy of the setting on the other because of wear on the shaft. I had a go at rubbishing this idea but they were adamant (didn’t he do pop songs or some such?). Nevertheless, I did try it but TBH (quelle surprise) it made no discernible difference...

The Merikans do tend to overthink things sometimes. The oil heads weren’t particularly highly tuned - I didn’t even bother re-setting the timing after changing a HES, a job I could do at the roadside. As long as the HES plate was put back in the same position it wasn’t necessary and anyway the engines were designed to run on rubbish fuel as well the decent (relative term) stuff we got, so sensitive they weren’t.

Ah, right. That all makes sense now. But surely (don’t call me surely) if the shaft is worn enough for that to make a difference, then  it’s the blooming shaft that needs replacing.

Fine in theory, slightly less fine in the pragmatic real world perhaps.

[Steve Case 939]

God bless the septics, so let me get this straight.... if i set a gap then i set another gap on the same rocker no less, the first gap is now different.

I'm guessing these people didn't work for nasa.

[Steve698 11]

Yay finally finished all my tasks on my NC750X DCT - changed oil, oil filter, clutch filter, coolant (repainted rad tanks) adjusted valve clearances, replaced fork seals/dust covers, fork oil, brake pads front/back, replaced brake fluid, adjusted chain and new Pirelli tyres front and back, put my back out for 4 days in the middle of it all but all ok now. Took it out today for a test ride and all was fine for 20 miles then as I was puling up in traffic at a crossing the neutral light came on and of coarse I lost all drive, I pushed across to the kerb and switched off then back on and everything was back to normal and stayed that way for the remainder of my ride - any ideas ?

[trisaki 2,029]

When anything  odd happens  on a NC  my first port of call is battery terminals  - to see if they need nipping up 

[Ozzieflyer 15]

Pardon my lack of knowledge here.

The service manual will tell me to service the valve clearances at a certain number of kms but is there any other way that I know that they need to be adjusted?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Andy m 23,434]

Take the cover off and measure them. 

 

The interval will come round way before they need touching in most cases and the ones that do need adjusting will be a fraction of nothing out. Don't get drawn into fiddling because of hypochondria and imagined noises, disturbing them does more harm than good. 

 

Andy

[Trev 18,533]

9 hours ago, Andy m said:

Take the cover off and measure them. 

 

The interval will come round way before they need touching in most cases and the ones that do need adjusting will be a fraction of nothing out. Don't get drawn into fiddling because of hypochondria and imagined noises, disturbing them does more harm than good. 

 

Andy

 

Been there, done dat 

[Ozzieflyer 15]

On 02/01/2021 at 22:08, Andy m said:

Take the cover off and measure them. 

 

The interval will come round way before they need touching in most cases and the ones that do need adjusting will be a fraction of nothing out. Don't get drawn into fiddling because of hypochondria and imagined noises, disturbing them does more harm than good. 

 

Andy

Thanks Andy.

I should have phrased this differently. 
Is there anyway you can tell the valve clearances are out without taking the cover off?

 

cheers.

Oz. 

[Andy m 23,434]

Yes, give it until about 100000 miles and the fuel consumption will go up 😁

 

Really, don't worry about them. It's a modern Honda. The 16K intervals are just a job creation scheme and busy dealers check them by telepathy anyway with no ill effects. 

 

Andy

[davebike 943]

I thinkma lot do as I do and lisen to the bike too little too much lets have a look shit dirty oil lets look

[bigbird 66]

Here's my method of inspecting/adjusting valves on any engine without giving a care about cylinder numbers, timing marks, or anything else.

Seasoned mechanics never remove the timing caps and squint through the hole trying to align the marks.

All you need to do is remove the cover of the crankshaft bolt to allow you to easily turn the crank with a ratchet and socket:

As you rotate the crank (counterclockwise only), watch the valve train operation.
Your 4 stroke cycle order is Intake-Compression-Power-Exhaust.

All valves are closed from slightly after the beginning of the compression stroke to almost the end of the power stroke.
Start with any cylinder.
Slowly rotate the crank.
You are looking for the exhausts (bottom 2 valves) to open and close.
Immediately after the exhausts close, the intakes will open.
As soon as the intakes close, another half turn will bring the  piston up to close to TDC (top dead centre).

That's close enough. The piston does not need to be exactly at TDC.
Stop the crank at that point and with your fingers, try to wiggle the intake and exhaust rocker arms up and down.
You should feel free play in all the rocker arms for that cylinder and hear light tapping.
That means it is safe to measure the clearances and adjust as necessary.

On to the next cylinder.
Start by rotating the crank again and watching the valve action of the next cylinder.

 

This saves a huge amount of time and is foolproof as long as you remember the order of the 4 stroke cycle and thus the order that the valves open and close.