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KingJames

The death of the R6

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KingJames

Sportsbike aren't my thing, but they were always the page 3 girl of the bike mags when I was reading them.  Are all 600cc sportsbike now a past fad or is it just the once market leading (apparently) R6 that is no more?

 

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/yamaha-mt-07-sportsbike/

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Ciaran1602

I suspect it'll be emissions legislation that's done it - getting a 4 cylinder, particularly a very highly strung one, to satisfy fuel efficiency and emissions requirements must be waaaaaaaaay harder than a twin.

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crazyhorse

Yeah, you can still get them but its classed as track only.

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Rocker66
40 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

I suspect it'll be emissions legislation that's done it - getting a 4 cylinder, particularly a very highly strung one, to satisfy fuel efficiency and emissions requirements must be waaaaaaaaay harder than a twin.

It’s also the fact the 600cc sportsbike class has been a dying one for sometime.

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Ciaran1602
Just now, Rocker66 said:

It’s also the fact the 600cc sportsbike class has been a dying one for sometime.

 

That too. While a screaming banshee 4 cylinder whose red line is in orbit of Jupiter is a fine, enticing thing, the real world usability of a torquey twin is an alluring thing. After all so many of us here have them!

 

Let alone the discomfort of the riding position...

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Xactly
43 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:

I suspect it'll be emissions legislation that's done it - getting a 4 cylinder, particularly a very highly strung one, to satisfy fuel efficiency and emissions requirements must be waaaaaaaaay harder than a twin.

Why? There are plenty of 1litre sports bikes that meet Euro V without power reduction. No, the fact is that 600cc sports bike sales have been in the decline for years. As riders age they’ve switched to more comfortable bikes.

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Ciaran1602
6 minutes ago, Xactly said:

Why? There are plenty of 1litre sports bikes that meet Euro V without power reduction. No, the fact is that 600cc sports bike sales have been in the decline for years. As riders age they’ve switched to more comfortable bikes.


I do not deny that is a factor - as a later response to Rocker demonstrates. However Honda USA discontinued the CBR600RR due to emissions regs according to Motorcycle.com and both they/MCN (pinch of salt of course)/CycleNews.com among others citing Emissions regs as a factor in the R6s discontinuance.

 

Similarly Yamaha's own press release reads "“With deep consideration of evolving global market trends and regulations that limit production volumes on certain models, the following Yamaha models will be discontinued after model year 2020: YZF-R6, VMAX, WR250R and SMAX". Interpretation abound of course but that seems to suggest both are at play.

Edited by Ciaran1602

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Xactly
11 minutes ago, Ciaran1602 said:


I do not deny that is a factor - as a later response to Rocker demonstrates. However Honda USA discontinued the CBR600RR due to emissions regs according to Motorcycle.com and both they/MCN (pinch of salt of course)/CycleNews.com among others citing Emissions regs as a factor in the R6s discontinuance.

 

Similarly Yamaha's own press release reads "“With deep consideration of evolving global market trends and regulations that limit production volumes on certain models, the following Yamaha models will be discontinued after model year 2020: YZF-R6, VMAX, WR250R and SMAX". Interpretation abound of course but that seems to suggest both are at play.

Yes, but it’s not the technical difficulty of converting to Euro V it’s simply that the demand for this class of bike is now so small that the cost of doing so makes it less than worthwhile. Sports bikes were predominantly fashionable in this country. In a global economic sense it’s just not worth Yamaha updating a bike of low volume sales; if it were they’d do it. 

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Rev Ken

The new Triumph triple 660cc has got some good write ups, and is just over 7 grand. It only weight 198kg and I reckon I could reach the ground. If they introduce a 'GT' version I might be tempted!

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Ciaran1602
1 minute ago, Xactly said:

Yes, but it’s not the technical difficulty of converting to Euro V it’s simply that the demand for this class of bike is now so small that the cost of doing so makes it less than worthwhile. Sports bikes were predominantly fashionable in this country. In a global economic sense it’s just not worth Yamaha updating a bike of low volume sales; if it were they’d do it. 


I would counter R6 had a drop of approx 16bhp from EU3 to EU4 and a commensurate drop in torque output - evidencing that the only way they could satisfy changing regs was to take something away.


Either way it doesn't really matter 'why' - it's sad nonetheless. I'm patently aware of market forces but choice is a good thing to have.

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larryblag
On 18/02/2021 at 13:29, Ciaran1602 said:

 

That too. While a screaming banshee 4 cylinder whose red line is in orbit of Jupiter is a fine, enticing thing, the real world usability of a torquey twin is an alluring thing. After all so many of us here have them!

 

Let alone the discomfort of the riding position...

And V4s. Don't forget V4s 😉

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larryblag

Also, sadly as the age of current bikers continues to increase with very few young 'uns coming into it like in my day, a reasonably comfortable perch is more of a selling point than a pocket rocket. 

 

We still have some excellent choices though with a number of decent 600 cc bikes coming in like the Aprilia RS660 parallel twin. Sounds awesome by the way 👍

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Foxy
On 18/02/2021 at 13:03, crazyhorse said:

Yeah, you can still get them but its classed as track only.

 

Never ridden an R6 on the road but a fantastic bike on the track, you can just get on, feel completely at home and ride with confidence, I dont think I have ever ridden another bike and felt that completely at ease first time out. 

 

I bought an ex Virgin Cup R6 which I used for a number of years as my track bike before selling it on in about 2009. In a twist of family fate my eldest son bought it back and after adding upside down forks and making other mods has been successfully using it in the steel framed 600 class.

 

Painted in Kenny Roberts yellow and black it looks nice and considering it's nearly 25 years old it goes great, I rode it at Cadwell a couple of seasons ago and had great fun.

 

Bikes, memories, it's much of what life is about. Well mine anyway.

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Defender

I'm not a sports bike person, never have been, but I've ridden a few across the years, the best 600cc sports bike I've ridden is my brothers CBR600F3 SJR, it's just perfectly balanced and steers almost telepathically with poise and finesse. 

The worst was the Triumph TT600, it just didn't ride very well, the engine wasn't one of their best efforts, I think the fuel injection was the issue, it's the only four cylinder Triumph I've ever ridden, my abiding thought was that they should stick to triples!

I think sports bikes in the decline and have been for some time, the 600's are going a bit like the 400's did some years back, will the 1000's be following suit I wonder?   

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Xactly

I think the difference with the 1litre bikes is that enough people are willing to pay a lot of money for bikes with the latest tech and 200bhp/ litre outputs. The latest Fireblade has changed from being a better le that is reasonably comfortable on the road to largely a track bike weapon to compete with the R1, BMW1000RR etc. It costs the same to develop a 600cc bike but they cannot command the same price, so they’ve gradually fallen by the wayside. The new breed are slightly bigger capacity bikes, a trend started some years ago by Triumph with their 675cc motor.

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Foxy
15 minutes ago, Xactly said:

I think the difference with the 1litre bikes is that enough people are willing to pay a lot of money for bikes with the latest tech and 200bhp/ litre outputs. The latest Fireblade has changed from being a better le that is reasonably comfortable on the road to largely a track bike weapon to compete with the R1, BMW1000RR etc. It costs the same to develop a 600cc bike but they cannot command the same price, so they’ve gradually fallen by the wayside. The new breed are slightly bigger capacity bikes, a trend started some years ago by Triumph with their 675cc motor.

 

Actually I think in the modern era Kawasaki led the charge with the 636 followed by Triumph a few years later.

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Xactly
13 minutes ago, Foxy said:

 

Actually I think in the modern era Kawasaki led the charge with the 636 followed by Triumph a few years later.

Yes, I think you’re right. I’d forgotten about the Kwacker.

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Foxy
2 minutes ago, Xactly said:

Yes, I think you’re right. I’d forgotten about the Kwacker.

 

I wish I could, not one of my favourites, the good news was it was stolen.😂

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larryblag

The Missenden Flyer recently tested the GSXS1000F. Looks a decent sports tourer in that guise - as long as you don't need a pillion seat. Suzuki might have missed an opportunity there. 

Edited by larryblag
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Defender
6 hours ago, Xactly said:

I think the difference with the 1litre bikes is that enough people are willing to pay a lot of money for bikes with the latest tech and 200bhp/ litre outputs. The latest Fireblade has changed from being a better le that is reasonably comfortable on the road to largely a track bike weapon to compete with the R1, BMW1000RR etc. It costs the same to develop a 600cc bike but they cannot command the same price, so they’ve gradually fallen by the wayside. The new breed are slightly bigger capacity bikes, a trend started some years ago by Triumph with their 675cc motor.

Yes, that's a very good point, which is probably why they tend to develop 'families' so the engines can be used in more than one bike, which makes you realise how clever Honda were with the NC series to get so many different bikes from the same chassis and engine configuration? 

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larryblag
17 minutes ago, Defender said:

Yes, that's a very good point, which is probably why they tend to develop 'families' so the engines can be used in more than one bike, which makes you realise how clever Honda were with the NC series to get so many different bikes from the same chassis and engine configuration? 

And cars - Honda Jazz 🤭

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Hickky

The reality is that the Japanese don't want to pour money into 600 four cylinder bikes when they can make 650 twins that produce enough power for a good, honest bike and cost a huge amount less to make. As pricing on motorcycles seems to follow the swept volume of the engine, make bigger, simpler machines and maximise profit. Why should a 1000cc bike cost double that of a 600? If both 4 cylinder, machining costs will be similar as the extra bits of aluminium for crankcases, barells etc is probably about £3.00. Wheels have slightly wider rims, brakes are so similar, the litre bike probably has 30mm larger rotors. Both need tanks and seats as well as electronics, so why is there often a 5 grand difference in price? Because there are enough mugs to pay these inflated prices. The Honda CBR 1000 RR-R Fireblade has been discounted to £20,000, what a bargain for a bike that is so unrideable on the roads that it has all sorts of electronic guff to stop too many from killing themselves before the finance plan has completed. You have got to be under 5ft 8" as well because the thing is so small. 

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Xactly
12 hours ago, Hickky said:

The reality is that the Japanese don't want to pour money into 600 four cylinder bikes when they can make 650 twins that produce enough power for a good, honest bike and cost a huge amount less to make. As pricing on motorcycles seems to follow the swept volume of the engine, make bigger, simpler machines and maximise profit. Why should a 1000cc bike cost double that of a 600? If both 4 cylinder, machining costs will be similar as the extra bits of aluminium for crankcases, barells etc is probably about £3.00. Wheels have slightly wider rims, brakes are so similar, the litre bike probably has 30mm larger rotors. Both need tanks and seats as well as electronics, so why is there often a 5 grand difference in price? Because there are enough mugs to pay these inflated prices. The Honda CBR 1000 RR-R Fireblade has been discounted to £20,000, what a bargain for a bike that is so unrideable on the roads that it has all sorts of electronic guff to stop too many from killing themselves before the finance plan has completed. You have got to be under 5ft 8" as well because the thing is so small. 

The same applies to the R6 really. It’s no use on the road.

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Mr Toad

What about the fact that sports bikes are increasingly less popular as a style of bike?

 

These days I hardly see any sports bikes on the road, every other style but in fact. 

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Trev
On 21/02/2021 at 13:52, larryblag said:

The Missenden Flyer recently tested the GSXS1000F. Looks a decent sports tourer in that guise - as long as you don't need a pillion seat. Suzuki might have missed an opportunity there. 

 

Sorry but can't agree, just another Suzuki lash up of a 'legendary' motor, looks truly horrific ....... and I'm a Suzuki fan, they'll be relaunching the 'legendary' two stroke ram air triple in a scooter chassis next :cry:

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