Chain Slack

[Scootabout 2,248]

One thing I have found interesting, what with me being a chain newbie and having compared to NC chain with the CB - The NC's chain looks like it could barely cope with a small child's pedal bike, whereas the CB's chain looks man enough to raise and lower Tower Bridge for the next 100 years.....

Obviously the CB is a bigger bike, but the difference was still startling.

I do wonder if Honda spec'd the chain for a 47 bhp bike, ignoring the fact that it's also a 61Nm bike, torque-wise? I've tentatively concluded that the chain will be ok if fairly substantial mechanical sympathy is applied. Feed the power in progressively, don't whack the throttle open from low revs, etc. I'm at 3k miles, so time will tell. At the end of the day the running costs are so modest that if the chain does die a bit early it's not going to bankrupt me. And I'm not riding this bike purely for the economy of it, nice though that is.

[Guest motorboy]

After mine went out(all kinked up) at 7000 miles I did a bit of checking the specs pin dia , side plate etc are the same as a EK SRO O ring chain rated at 50 HP not good enough for me so EK SRX X ring 90HP chain is what I put ,so I think Honda does use a low spec chain never,never had a chain go out that quick.Over here a chain is a wear item no warranty but I did manage to get both sprockets for free. Now I know I'm good to go

[Guest woodbar]

I must admit this chain drive maintenance malarky is a bit of a downer really - especially as there is a consensus, in certain quarters, that the chain on the NC is not really "man enough" for the job and there seems to be 1001 different ideas on how to lube, clean and  adjust the things!

 

My experience so far - I kept an eye on the chain slack and it was just about needing adjustment when it had its first service (550m) so the dealer took care of that - they also plastered another shed-load of thick sticky grease all over it.    As far as I am concerned a chain that is covered in "sticky stuff", either grease or oil, should be in an enclosed case.  First, that stops the grit, dust and sh*t adhering to the chain and forming a nice grinding paste - second, grease or oil flinging off onto the tyre, paintwork or ME is just not acceptable!

 

So the sticky stuff just had to go and it took quite an effort - mainly with WD40 (as a cleaner) then a couple of applications of Muc Off plus a blow dry (I use a pet dryer).  Finally a couple of applications of Wurth Dry Lube - result - a nice new looking chain that just has a light "waxy" feel and nothing sticks.  Of course only time will tell if this stuff actually lubes the chain sufficiently.

 

On a slightly different subject - I decided to order a chain alignment tool - looked around the auction site and chose one that clamps to the rear sprocket and has a metal rod that projects along the chain - in the photo it "looked" a bit better than some as it had chromed thumb-wheel screws for the clamps.  When it arrived it was absolute cheap junk - totally different to the picture, different colour, with nylon screws and the main aluminium block was cut at an angle.  The supplier apologised but said they had had to substitute and offered to send a replacement which they would check first - when that arrived, still sealed in OEM packaging (so not checked!) at least the main block appeared true but the metal rod was bent. I had a go at straightening it - soft as putty - so NOT something you could consider to be suitable for use as a tool.  I am awaiting a refund on that pile of junk.

 

So, I ordered a laser type alignment tool - about three times the price - but I have just tried it out today and it's brilliant.  I've done 1000m now and thought I needed to take just a wee bit of slack out of the chain but I was dubious about using those marks on the swing arm - they are just so vague.  Having used the new laser tool I have found that the scale on the swing arm is way off anyway - at least half a division difference between left and right side!  Obviously that is assuming the new laser tool IS actually accurate - going to see if I can double check tomorrow - trouble is I don't think the tool will fit on the inner side of the sprocket - this would be the best check as the tool would then be inverted so any error should be visible (I think????)

 

So really, in short, just a warning - don't necessarily trust the (bendy, misaligned) metal rod tools OR the scales on the swing arm.

[Guest motorboy]

Now that your rear wheel is straight take a dial caliper and measure the bolt ends that stick out of the chain adjusters and see if there the same length-- bet they are

[Rev Ken 6,331]

Once aligned - just ensure any further adjustment on each side is the same by counting the number of flats you turn the adjusters - cheapest way!

Edited September 1, 2013 by Rev Ken

[embee 7,288]

A couple of comments spring to mind.

 

When I got my Integra I took the rear suspension linkage apart to grease the bearings (precaution), and while about it I checked the chain free play with wheel movement. I found the tightest point was with around 60mm wheel lift (when on the centre stand so starting from fully extended). I checked this by inserting various pieces of timber under the wheel to support the weight and measuruing the chain free play mid span on the lower run.

 

My conclusion is that the MINIMUM amount of free play when using light finger pressure mid-lower-span while on the centre stand should be 35mm, any less than this and the chain becomes noticeably tight when the wheel lifts to around 60mm which is probably where it spends most of its life on the road I suspect.

 

I usually check wheel alignment with a steel straight edge along the tyres (allowing for the different sections) on any new bike I have and decide how reliable the wheel adjuster markings are. On the Integra they are just about spot on, which makes things easier. I always double check the alignment after chain adjustment by spinning the rear wheel and seeing if the chain runs with the sprockets more or less central (the chain is a bit wider than the sprocket so there is side clearance). I actually made a 0.75mm shim washer to go in the brake side to get it perfect, but that's not far out as it stood (the centerline of the wheel only moves by half the shim thickness while there is clearance in the swingarm if you think about it). My chain now runs central, or more specifically it will run either side if you push it across, it doesn't always go to one side or the other.

 

The other thing I came across is that the gearbox sprocket is a floating fit, the bolt and washer don't clamp it up tight. There is something like 0.5mm endfloat (that's approximate, I didn't measure it). I did wonder if this is as intended, and looking at the washer it is not a substantial thick item which I would expect if it was meant to clamp, so I concluded that this is as intended (I trust Honda engineering, just needed to convince myself). I applied some Honda Moly60 grease to the spline/sprocket as it was bone dry (Honda Moly60 is the magic stuff for shaft drive splines).

 

I've read comments elsewhere about a rhythmic thrumming felt through the bike at certain speeds, and I had noticed this on mine when I got it. Since sorting out the alignment and slackening off the chain to at least 35mm this has more or less disappeared on my bike, so if you notice this I would suggest trying a bit more slack. I think this characteristic is aggravated a bit by having a 16T gearbox sprocket and a 112 pitch chain (exactly 7:1 ratio) so the sprocket and chain synchronise every chain rotation. I would have been nicer to have a "hunting" tooth/link to break the synchronisation.

 

The DID-Japan chain fitted is surprisingly stiff compared to every other chain I've had, it has done around 3k miles now, but it loosens when it warms up with use. I check the chain free play when it is warm for this reason. The movement isn't "tight" as in feeling like it is seizing up, it just feels like a very viscous joint. I think the chain saga has more to it than meets the eye, but so far this one seems to be OK.

 

I have also fitted a PD-Oiler which so far has performed impressively. I wired it to the back of the accessory socket in the cubby.

[Guest motorboy]

Once aligned - just ensure any further adjustment on each side is the same by counting the number of flats you turn the adjusters - cheapest way!

BINGO

[Guest motorboy]

A few comments ,the chain should be at it's tightest when the swing arm is straight in line with the counter shaft sprocket is 60mm off the ground putting the swingarm straight should have about 1/2 inch slack, also my DID chain was like yours stiff when cold looser when warm just before it failed and the links started to freeze up at 7000 miles might want to keep an eye on that.

[Guest woodbar]

Well, since my post the other day regarding the various chain alignment tools I have had a rethink.

 

As suggested I checked the amount of thread showing on the adjusters (thanks for the tip) and there was about 3mm difference - of course it does not help that Honda have cut these off at an angle - a bit strange really, they look like cheap and cheerful Chinese or Indian sourced engineering?

 

In view of this I decide to try and check the laser tool - using a ceramic hob as a "flat plane" and a steel rule as a straight edge (with masking tape on so I could mark the dot position) I discovered the laser tool was about 1.5 to 2mm off over a distance of 400mm!  I tried on a different surface - same result.  SO I have just emailed that supplier for a refund.

 

I actually then re-aligned the wheel using a 60cm steel rule placed against the side of the links of the chain (initially I could see the chain was slightly bowed in the middle towards the wheel), torqued everything up, checked alignment and slack again - test ride.

 

Probably 50% of the "clonk" I have noted previously when changing gear has gone and changes now seem much smoother - even 6th gear at 45mph in "D" now seems better!

 

So, have I driven 1000miles on an incorrectly adjusted wheel/chain I wonder - the only time it has been adjusted, until now, was at the first service by the dealer?

 

The only thing I am not sure of is how hard to push the chain to measure the slack and do you actually pull the chain down, to get your starting point,  before checking the amount of slack upward toward the swing arm?

 

I note the thread lengths on the adjusters are now almost the same - maybe 0.5mm difference and the alignment marks on the swing arm are close to being equal.

 

SO I'll modify my original warning, don't trust rod alignment tools, laser alignment tools.............. etc.

 

Maybe should have thought about the KISS principle earlier!

[embee 7,288]

...., also my DID chain was like yours stiff when cold looser when warm just before it failed and the links started to freeze up at 7000 miles might want to keep an eye on that.

 

Thanks for that, I'll certainly monitor it closely,

[Guest woodbar]

Thinking about the way Honda specify chain slack - to be checked on the side stand?

 

This is NOT going to be accurate with regard to the position of the swing arm - it will be affected by:

 

1) What kind of floor surface the bike is on

 

2) How much fuel is in the tank

 

3) The position of the the handlebars

 

4) Whether you have luggage attached (empty/full?)

 

5) How you let it "settle" on the side stand

 

The ONLY accurate and repeatable reference point for the swing arm is with the bike on the centre stand and the swing arm at a fully extended position - so it would have been helpful if Honda had given us a value for this set-up?

 

I have now checked the slack on both types of stand and there seems to be about 4mm difference in the readings, so not a huge amount, but YMMV depending on the above.

 

It may be, as they thought they would generate extra revenue by making the centre stand an option, they would specify a method using the bikes standard equipment - but then again the method described for checking the oil and coolant levels specifies the bike being upright on level ground - yeah, right - that's when my third hand comes in very useful!

[Guest Todd L.]

I get the same measurement on the center stand as I do on the side stand. I'm sure there is a difference, but it is undetectable to my eye. Luckily there is a range of approved slack and I keep it away from either extreme just to be safe. My DID-Japan chain has been truly outstanding and rarely needs adjustment. I lube every few hundred kilometers and it didn't even need its first adjustment until 1500 miles! I was so surprised by this I had my dealer check it several times along the way. I'm quite sure my riding environment/conditions are to account for this. Like fuel economy, there are so many variables when comparing chain wear.

[Guest Old Man]

I get the same measurement on the center stand as I do on the side stand.

+1

[Guest Biking Fifer]

hate to re-visit this, I have had my chain adjusted (by dealer) twice in the last 7 weeks, slack is about 25-30mm but there are some really tight spots as well. I am using muc-off dry lube at the moment at cleaning about fortnightly and lubing every week. Does this sound around average? I am useless at maintenance and would get the dealer to adjust the slack but it's £25 a pop!

[Guest ColinB]

In 9000 miles I have adjusted my chain 3 times. Hate scotoilers just use a standard chain lube and not very often.  WD40 is not suitable for lubricating a chain, it's more a cleaner than a lubricant.

[steelhorseuk 1,690]

hate to re-visit this, I have had my chain adjusted (by dealer) twice in the last 7 weeks, slack is about 25-30mm but there are some really tight spots as well. I am using muc-off dry lube at the moment at cleaning about fortnightly and lubing every week. Does this sound around average? I am useless at maintenance and would get the dealer to adjust the slack but it's £25 a pop!

 

Hi Scott, chain problems are very common with this bike. You can just see that from all the comments about the subject.

 

I am on my third chain in 4.5K! (all under warranty with Honda UK)

 

If you have tight spots developing on the chain and the bike is still under OEM warranty then your dealer should not be charging you a penny to adjust it for you.  They should be changing it FOC courtesy of Honda warranty,

 

I have contacted Honda UK about this and other problems recently and received a compensation payment in the form of vouchers to use at the dealer.

(this is not to be used for warranty work)

 

I would urge everyone having problems to make sure Honda UK are informed directly, not through your dealer.

I cannot believe authorised dealers are taking money from you for a faulty chain. Its not your fault it needs constant adjustment.

 

Mark     

[Guest Biking Fifer]

Hmm, I just assumed chain adjusting was all part of the biking experience! I am just too inept to adjust the chain myself but I am hoping that the 25-30 mm is OK, this is measured on the centre stand in N.

[Guest Old Man]

I think that 25-30 is too tight may be different on yours as I have a manual X

[Guest Biking Fifer]

It's a manual S, I thought the book said 30mm max!!!

[chris 357]

On the X the spec is 30 to 40mm of slack with the bike on the side stand on level ground. If you put the bike on the centre stand to check then you need to add 5mm to the slack as the suspension lets out a bit more than when on the side stand.

 

On the S the workshop manual says the slack should be 25 to 35mmm - but that will be the side stand reading. If the slack is about 30mm on centre stand that is correct but you shouldn't have lots of tight spots as you describe.

 

My bike's done 4400 km and I've adjusted the chain once so far - I'll probably adjust again soon as the slack has increased by about 5mm since I last did it.

[Guest Biking Fifer]

Thanks for the information, it may be that the chain slack is fine, I am going to try the castrol lube and see how that works. I would presume the slack would have to be well over 50mm for the chain to fail and jump of the sprocket or snap? Apologies if that's a stupid question but I am still new to the moto world!!

[chris 357]

On the X the owners' manual says not to ride the bike if the slack is more than 60mm - so I guess 50mm would be the equivalent on the S. It'll be specified in your owner's manual The big worry is having the chain too tight much more than it being a bit slack. If the chain is too tight it's going to do serious damage to the transmission as it's going to put excess stress on the gearbox output shaft. Usually you want to adjust the chain to the tighter setting (25mm in your case on the S so you get the maximum time until it gets out to 35mm slack. It should take a good few thousand km between adjustments.

[ddazzler64 16]

hate to re-visit this, I have had my chain adjusted (by dealer) twice in the last 7 weeks, slack is about 25-30mm but there are some really tight spots as well. I am using muc-off dry lube at the moment at cleaning about fortnightly and lubing every week. Does this sound around average? I am useless at maintenance and would get the dealer to adjust the slack but it's £25 a pop!

I thought your dealer does this for free, mine says they should. Good luck.

[Rocker66 34,411]

If our dealer fits a new chain he likes the customer to go back after a set number of miles to have it adjusted FOC.

. To my mind £25 is a bit of a rip off

If as you say your chain has several tight spots I would seriously think about replacing it.

[ddazzler64 16]

The chap (1/3 cheaper than the dealer) who changed the sprockets and chain said that the chain should always run in the slack area: and my problem with the chain slack was due to the small sprocket having warn significantly (not sure if that's my fault or the part). The bike is still under warrantee so will keep quiet about the chain i think, hopefully it wont be an issue