unable to engage auto gear -either D or S- on NC750

[bazza 3,629]

NC750 A DCT -now 2500 miles old

I visited a client today with a VERY steep drive-which I nosed down, bike on side stand and locked the hand brake on. Probably 1 in 3 slope
Left like that for say 20 minutes.
Then rolled  it into the drive on the level started engine and it revved to about 2000 and wouldn't go into D or S.
I thought maybe a flooded carb ( injector?) so left it on the level,again on the side stand.
After a few minutes still easy start- but high revs. checked all external cables -nothing visibly trapped

left running for 5 minutes in case flooding was the cause.
Then tried again and as I took it off the side stand the revs slowed and it would go into gear.
Rode home 30 miles -no problems at all

 

anyone else had that?

 

bazza

[scara 354]

Bazza, Not owning the dct version I'm afraid I cant offer you any idea really, however the way I read your post is that it was on the side stand, silly question maybe was your side stand still down, not fully up ? when you tried to select the D/S. I know with the manual the engine will stop if the side stand is down, with the DCT does the software prevent you from even engaging D/S whilst it is down ??. Only a thought.

Edited July 2, 2014 by scara

[Guest Stephen S]

The way you tell it, it sounds like you had the side stand down when you tried to engage D.

There is an interlock that prevents that. But I guess you knew that, and you didn't have the side stand down. In which case, it's very spooky.

[JAHBLESS 11]

NC750 A DCT -now 2500 miles old

I visited a client today with a VERY steep drive-which I nosed down, bike on side stand and locked the hand brake on. Probably 1 in 3 slope

Left like that for say 20 minutes.

Then rolled  it into the drive on the level started engine and it revved to about 2000 and wouldn't go into D or S.

I thought maybe a flooded carb ( injector?) so left it on the level,again on the side stand.

After a few minutes still easy start- but high revs. checked all external cables -nothing visibly trapped

left running for 5 minutes in case flooding was the cause.

Then tried again and as I took it off the side stand the revs slowed and it would go into gear.

Rode home 30 miles -no problems at all

 

anyone else had that?

 

bazza

 

Had the very same thing happen to me yesterday, twice! rolled it backwards out of the garage from cold and engine not running, started it up and it wouldn't go into D so I turned off the ignition, restarted and it went into D, I suspected the kickstand switch but didn't give it much thought after that. 10 miles down the road I stopped for fuel and it did it again, this time I rolled the bike back a few inches in neutral and it popped into D. I've got my 600 mile service next week so I'll bring it up and get them to plug it in, will be interesting to see where this thread goes if it does.

[JAHBLESS 11]

Forgot to mention my revs were ticking over as usual.

[ste7ios 469]

It sounds like the side stand... If there is any error with the DCT you'll see it on the display.

[bazza 3,629]

Had the very same thing happen to me yesterday, twice! rolled it backwards out of the garage from cold and engine not running, started it up and it wouldn't go into D so I turned off the ignition, restarted and it went into D, I suspected the kickstand switch but didn't give it much thought after that. 10 miles down the road I stopped for fuel and it did it again, this time I rolled the bike back a few inches in neutral and it popped into D. I've got my 600 mile service next week so I'll bring it up and get them to plug it in, will be interesting to see where this thread goes if it does.

let me know what your cahp says -i have mailed my dealer as well and will let you know!

[bazza 3,629]

Bazza, Not owning the dct version I'm afraid I cant offer you any idea really, however the way I read your post is that it was on the side stand, silly question maybe was your side stand still down, not fully up ? when you tried to select the D/S. I know with the manual the engine will stop if the side stand is down, with the DCT does the software prevent you from even engaging D/S whilst it is down ??. Only a thought.

Yes it can't go into any gear when the s/stand is down.That's a good idea.but I had taken it off the stand and rolled it forward about 5 yards and sat on again- so reckon the stand must have been up. But good thought-will check it and oil if needed!

[Defender 3,834]

My '700X DCT does take a few seconds after starting before a gear can be selected, however I have had a couple of occasions when I was unable to start the bike, but that has been due to the run/kill switch being in the off position.

[Guest scrumpymike]

It's the high-revving bit that baffles me - that seems to exclude any side-stand issues. Keep us posted.

[horobags 905]

It's the high-revving bit that baffles me - that seems to exclude any side-stand issues. Keep us posted.

Good point, I dont think dct will select any gear if the revs are above tickover, for safety reasons. I read a while ago on the dn01 they have a very sensitive tilt sensor which can affect start up after parking at a tilt angle, wonder if the dct is the same??

[embee 7,288]

Yes, it definitely won't engage gear if the engine revs are above a certain value. It also won't engage with the sidestand down (been there!   ). It will engage first when on the mainstand but won't upshift (presumably if it doesn't see the front wheel turning the upshift is inhibited but it allows the transmission to engage for test purposes etc).

 

I too find it needs a second or two after starting before the drive will engage, it's caught me on a couple of occasions when I've been a bit "previous" with the drive button.

 

Can't really offer any thoughts why the idle speed should have been high, unless cables were tight for some reason.

[Guest surreyhills1]

It won't go into gear if the revs are slightly higher like when just starting the engine.

You will notice that a single horizontal bar displays on the fuel gauge when you start the DCT version,once the revs drop to a pre determined level the horizontal bar on the fuel gauge dissapears.

You are then able to select either D or S mode.

This stops the gears snatching when engaged,which is a safety feature on the bike.

(When the horizontal bar displays on the fuel gauge the bars showing fuel levels do not appear).

Hope that helps

[wozza 967]

Some very helpful Gents on here.. Nice one chaps..

[Guest bonekicker]

Hope you get it sorted soon bazza, let us know the outcome please.

[bazza 3,629]

Thanks for all the advice. i assume the high revs (2000+) may have been excess  fuel getting in - and that would stop the gears engaging.But WHY did it flood? I did check all visible cable connections and nothing was trapped.

It rode ok back home 40 miles after it started - but if it was a side stand not properly disengaging whu would the revs drop at that point to a lower tickover -or was it just a coincidence that the over fuelling had gone?

[ste7ios 469]

Every vehicle with a catalytic converter will rev up for sometime to heat it up as quickly as possible. In your case (after 20' it should be hot enough) It can be a PCM software glitch or a sensor fault...

[Guest Kildareman]

Thanks for all the advice. i assume the high revs (2000+) may have been excess  fuel getting in - and that would stop the gears engaging.But WHY did it flood? I did check all visible cable connections and nothing was trapped.

It rode ok back home 40 miles after it started - but if it was a side stand not properly disengaging whu would the revs drop at that point to a lower tickover -or was it just a coincidence that the over fuelling had gone?

If "flood" is the correct term and if it was an injector then it could only have been becasue it stuck open.

The side stand switch is either on or off (up or down).  Putting a meter across it would show a very low resistance in one position and open (very high) in the other.  Don't know which way round it is on the NC

[bazza 3,629]

Reminder

High revving DCT after parking on steep downhill slope .The question is -Why high revving with throttel shut?

My dealer didn't come up with anything new- but has a steep slope into his yard (Colwyn Bay Motorcycles) so i have suggested he park a DCT on the slope to see if it floods.

Not too technical so don't know if our bikes have a float bowl that can flood- anyone got an answer?

[Guest scrumpymike]

"Not too technical so don't know if our bikes have a float bowl that can flood- anyone got an answer?"

 

Not with electronic injection systems like ours.

[Dave H 2,022]

I'm not sure an EFI can flood but sometimes if you start it and twist the throttle you can upset the throttle body sensor.  On some bikes I've had you must start with throttle closed.  Theres usually a simple procedure to reset the sensor such as turning on and off with the throttle closed or some such.

[embee 7,288]

As far as the "flooding" topic, well if the ignition fails for some reason it will (probably) still inject fuel and thus wet the cylinder/plug, but simply adding excess fuel to a firing cylinder won't make it run faster, it will only burn as much fuel as there is air to supply oxygen, so the idle speed is dictated by the air flow (i.e. throttle position and any extra air supply from idle speed valves etc) not the fuelling per se. If the idle speed was high it must have had extra air going in.

 

I don't know what level of diagnostics these have as regards misfire detection, probably not as such I suspect. Cars have misfire detection which will inhibit injectors to avoid catalyst overheat (if the cylider doesn't fire the mixture will then burn in the catalyst, releasing a whole lot of heat). The crank/cam position sensors allow it to decide which cylinder(s) is misfiring so inhibits only that injector, the feedback is also then inhibited since the lambda sensor will be seeing free oxygen from the "coasting" cylinder and it reverts to an "open loop" base fuelling map as a limp-home mode.

[maoleoin 12]

Revisiting an old thread as I had the exact same issue on my 2014 750 DCT last night, high revs ~2000rpm and wouldn't engage gear, it was parked on centre stand on the flat so this discounts the hill as the contributing reason for me anyway. Had been sitting all day in the cold, was fairly nippy in Bristol yesterday but not cold enough to cause any issues I would have thought. Bazza had his issue on July so assume temperatures were higher then ! Once revs settled a bit below 1500 and with some rocking back in forth it eventually engaged gear, but took a bit under 5 minutes (with an audience). Rode OK on the way home and then this morning was fine again (garaged overnight), will what it does tonight as it is probably colder today (beautiful clear blue sky at the moment), need to remember to use balaclava and glove liners on way home .

 

Anybody with any insight on this ? Worried I have a problem brewing ...

[Rofbox 331]

I'm not sure an EFI can flood but sometimes if you start it and twist the throttle you can upset the throttle body sensor.  On some bikes I've had you must start with throttle closed.  Theres usually a simple procedure to reset the sensor such as turning on and off with the throttle closed or some such.

+ 1 on the 'turn it off and start it again'. Two days ago had a warm bike and when I started it the revs went to 2000 and stayed there. Did the off and on again routine and all fine.

[maoleoin 12]

Thanks James, somehow it is reassuring that other people have seen the issue recently too.

 

As per the best IT support, turning off and back on again is my usual approach to issues, I did that last night but got 2000rpm again so decided to let it warm up and allow revs to settle, meanwhile trying to get it into gear by rocking it. Revs dropped and I eventually got 'D'. Maybe I needed to turn off, count to 10, turn on, TBH can't remember quite what I did, having an audience and rushing to get home was enough of a distraction. Bike was flashing last bar on fuel, maybe related, but I definitely didn't touch throttle on starting.