Clutch problem

[Guest machinman]

Warped clutch steels are quite common on the manual model. My 700 was done under warranty and their was a couple of others in the workshop with the same troubles.

[Guest MadStu]

I'll take it to them and see what he says.

[Guest butlerm5]

Mines now booked in next week for a possible new clutch - an NC750S.

 

I reported it before the guarantee ran out, and their 'fix' was to reroute the clutch cable.

 

Unfortunately this didn't work, and they agreed to look at it warm one weekend and confirmed the issue - It's not something you'd notice on a cold bike after a service.

 

Neutral is almost impossible to find - Sometimes you can 'blip' it on, other times you have to stop the engine.

 

I'm doing a bike safe this weekend, so it's not going to make things easy for me.

 

I'm hoping Honda will foot the bill, we'll see how good Honda and the dealer are in getting this sorted.

 

I may be looking at a more local dealer or even a different brand of bike if not.

 

I do like the look of the new Bonneville, but despite living within walking distance of the Triumph factory in Hinckley, I have to go to Birmingham or Nottingham to find a dealer.

 

I get a lot of interest in my bike as I instruct CBT and 125's in my spare time - But I don't feel I can honestly recommend it  to others at the moment.

 

I do wonder if bikes are only built as leisure machines these days and aren't capable of doing what to me is a reasonable 7 to 8,000 miles a year.

 

I bet my old CBF500 is still going strong on it's original clutch.

[embee 7,288]

I hope you get things sorted to your satisfaction Mark.

 

I think these issues need to be seen in perspective. While your experience is 100% failure, the vast majority don't have any significant issues. Bear in mind that almost all makes, and the majority of models, have cases of problems reported, some are much more troublesome than others. Read the forum reports and you'll usually hear the complaints and problems, so they tend to seem more dramatic than they often are, you don't often read posts from folk who have had no problem at all, no news is ............. well, no news really. The NC manual clutches have had a number of reported issues so it is definitely a genuine thing, but not that common. Rather like issues with the DCT system, some have had problems but numbers are small.

 

I think this NC forum is one of the few where folk do actually report that they've had no problems at all. Sorry that's no consolation for your issue, but as said, hope it gets fixed. It doesn't sound disastrous, more annoyance having the hassle of getting it fixed.

[Guest aldmannie]

Recently I have been researching purchase of a 2016 NC750S and this thread has popped something out from the dark recesses at the back of my brain.....

 

"For 2016 the manual transmission engine receives an adjusted clutch lever pull ratio – and new dogleg lever – making easier work of frequent gear changes."

 

Source: http://hondanews.eu/eu/en/motorcycles/media/pressreleases/66610/2016-honda-nc750s

 

So it looks to me like Honda have altered the gearing/leverage of the clutch actuation and I would speculate they may also have increased the travel meaning that the clutch lever is now able to open the plates further.

 

And with this in mind I headed over to Bike Parts Honda dot com to look at clutch part numbers....

 

The engine-end clutch lever on the 2016 bike is a different part: 22810-MKA-D31 and is specific to the 2016 NC750.

The original one is: 22810-MGS-D30 and has been in use for decades on a variety of bikes.

The clutch centre on the 2016 bike is also a new part: 22120-MKA-D30 again specific to the 2016 NC750.

The original one is: 22120-MBA-000 again this part has been in use for decades on all sorts.

As far as I can see the clutch plates in the 2016 NC750 are the same as the 2014.

 

To me it looks like Honda have now given some proper thought to the manual clutch in the NC range rather than just shove in any old bits from the back catalogue.

 

Would be interesting to know if the relevant parts from the 2016 bike can be retrofitted to give an improved clutch action and if thats the case, whether dealers are fitting the newer model parts during warranty repairs.

The fact that a price is not listed for the new engine-end clutch lever and clutch centre at Bike Parts Honda dot com just "contact" and the fact that forum members are having to wait for parts would suggest they are using the new parts which are subject to delay down to the earthquake at the factory.

 

No idea if I'm right, but it may be of interest for people with more knowledge in these matters to follow up on.

[Guest butlerm5]

The bike is currently in bits, and the dealer is sending pictures to Honda - so fingers crossed they'll agree to sort it under guarantee.

 

The weekend went very well, Interestingly the other rider in our group at bikesafe also had an NC750 - but an X. And we had a great day honing our skills.

 

The air ambulance ride out was also excellent and included a blast down the Bruntingthorpe 2 mile straight. I was being cautious as I had my daughter on the back, but the sat-nav still recorded 96 mph.

 

I'm looking forward to a much better gear-change as the rest of the bike is just fine, especially since I changed out the suspension for Wilbers. 

 

And thanks for the feedback - Very interesting that Honda have changed clutch parts to get around the issue...

Edited August 18, 2016 by butlerm5

[Guest butlerm5]

Just been speaking to the dealer - The clutch is dragging and Honda won't cover it - So £ 300 + to fix.

 

Will be interesting to see if the new clutch feels any different to the old - I'll know next week.

 

If it does then there was something bad with the old clutch, but if not then I'm going to have to factor in a new clutch every couple of years.

[larryblag 14,236]

Just been speaking to the dealer - The clutch is dragging and Honda won't cover it - So £ 300 + to fix.

Will be interesting to see if the new clutch feels any different to the old - I'll know next week.

If it does then there was something bad with the old clutch, but if not then I'm going to have to factor in a new clutch every couple of years.

Ouch! Honda are obviously aware of a quality issue, such a shame you've got a large bill to face. Very difficult to understand Honda's stance on this. Might it be worth offering to pay the labour charge if they (dealer) cover the cost of parts? I presume they want your repeat business? Edited August 19, 2016 by larryblag

[Guest butlerm5]

The bike is fixed and although still a bit clunky - I can now find neutral easily.

 

I also had a very interesting chat with the dealer about Honda's current attitude to repair work.

 

They had a customer come across from BMW which doesn't have the best reliability record - but their customer service is good, so the issues get fixed.

 

Honda on the other hand while being more reliable are increasingly refusing to cough up.

 

The BMW customer went back to BMW one Honda later!

 

 

The clutch steels were unevenly worn and blued in places, which seems to point to overheating.

 

I do a fair amount of city work and also CBT instructing in my spare time, so that means a lot of low-speed riding.

 

I suspect strongly that the issue is a cooling one that affects all versions of the NC engine, in that a lot of low-speed work leads to the clutch overheating and failing early.

 

This would explain why there are some really high mileage users out there with no issues - They don't do a lot of slow work.

 

The garage also suggested I contact Honda direct as I might have more luck than they did.

 

So, something to consider - If you're likely to do a lot of city or other slow work such as instructing - avoid the NC range of machines at all cost.

[Guest 3taggarts]

So I recently bought a 2015 NC750S (right before the new model) from a large London Honda dealer. It was a demo model with less than a 100 miles on the clock. Apparently the bike had been sitting in storage or on the show room floor for 18 months. So I only had 6 months left on the Honda warranty. The bike looked and felt brand new, and as I was buying it from Londons largest Honda dealer I felt I was in good hands so decided to risk the low warranty period.

 

Well, that was a mistake!

 

I bought it in November 2016 and rode it through the winter back and forth to work through central London. I was a new rider and that doubled with the wet cold winters I was always careful and rarely pushed the bike, if ever. In the 7 months I've had the bike I've done just over 4K miles and the clock is now currently at 4188 miles. 

 

As summer started coming in and the weather started warming up I noticed that the gears were starting to get sticky, double notching through the lower gears and could never get it into neutral. It took me revving it slightly to get it into neutral, otherwise impossible! Gear grating was becoming more and more frequent and was as if you were trying to change gears without using the clutch at all, yet the clutch had great grip at pull off and in the higher gears, so it wasn't nearly worn or slipping, but if the clutch was worn it would have helped my case.  When the bike was cold it was as if there was never a problem and the gears worked beautifully, but as the engine started to warm up the gearing problems got worse and worse. It became seriously unpleasant riding.

 

Anyone with any common sense would know this wasn't a clutch cable issue as I was getting the exact opposite to a partially activated clutch. But, maybe it was bad oil? But, I still had 3500 miles before my 8K service???

 

By this time the bike was out of warranty so I decided to do my own oil and filter change which was advised to do on all the forums. Well, this only helped slightly while cold, but didnt make a blind bit of difference when hot. Thanks to this thread I decided to bite the bullet and get a new clutch put in. It would cost me £308. Obviously all Honda dealers denied such a problem existed as I discussed this problem over the phone before booking it in. Oh, the lies!! 

 

As it turns out the clutch friction and steel plates weren't worn at all and were said to be in good condition. But the clutch basket was another story. The basket had severe notching from the plates pushing against them from engine breaking and acceleration. This pitting (Notching) was causing the plates to get stuck and stop them from releasing properly. So essentially causing one or two plates to lightly stay stuck together, maybe more I dont know. Hence the feeling why it felt the clutch was not fully releasing. 

 

So the kind mechanics lightly filed the basket notches, but not too much to cause the plates float about too much. 

 

I wasn't shown on whether or not the actual plate fingers were also flattened but its highly likely they were too. With both these problems there would be no way for those plates to moves freely. 

 

The service manager showed me another basket and plates from another recent Honda NC750S which were also very bad. The guy that owned that NC750 only had 5K on the clock and was currently fighting with Honda, who wouldn't budge and basically told him to take the high road!  Unfortunately for him he had to also change his basket which ended up costing close to a £1000.  It seems to be a definite problem on ALL Honda NC750s's and will be noticed far quicker for those who use them for heavy traffic city riding as this requires constant clutch, breaking and acceleration use. 

 

Basically the metal used in these baskets are pretty soft, so I know that in another 4000 miles I will have to change the clutch and ALSO basket this time. I'm going to start saving now for that bill.

 

I know I will have no fight with Honda as they would never admit there is a massive problem with their clutch baskets. My only fight would be to pass on the message to all of those looking to buy one of these or get you to sell yours before it becomes a problem. Steer clear of them! Apparently the NC700 never had this problem and was pretty bullet proof.

 

Oh, and yes, changing the clutch and filing the basket did solve all my gearing problems......for now! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest sykospain]

Wow, what a tale, 3taggar ..

I must be one of the luckier ones.  My 2015 S-DCT currently performs faultlessly in all situations; seamless rapid unnoticeable gearchanges either up or down, and these days here it's so hot, that when I put the bike away in the garage, the crankcase is still too toasty to touch the next morning !  What am I doing right ?  Not buying a manual ?

Edited July 20, 2017 by sykospain

[Tex 36,816]

Wow! A new rider can bugger a clutch as quickly as that? Who knew? Well, we did actually. So do Honda which is why they're not paying for the repairs. The NC750 clutch is fine, there are plenty of high mileage ones about. Honda have been in the business a long time, after all.

 

Take a bit of hearsay, lots of inaccuracies, a pinch of sour grapes and a dollop of anecdotal 'evidence', chuck 'em all in a blender and then bake in a low oven. Result? A half baked post! Sorry.