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chain life - could this be the answer?


Mike5100

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All beyond me I'm afraid I can only comment on what I have experienced and had advice from my mechanic. Lube the chain 'X' ring in my case once a week,he does not seem to think it being warm or cold makes much of a difference? Which I do and the chain will have a long healthy life. Ironically I have just had my original chain replaced for a more heavy duty one after having a tutoro oiler on the first one which only lasted 8,000 miles.

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The holy grail of long chain life has to be a chain case,,,anything else is a case of treating the symptoms instead of treating the causes......I believe a chain can be treated much like a shaft or be

Stelios you think it would be a negative for Honda,I disagree,,it would be a one off in the bike market! diffinatly a selling point..Think about it ,people buy shaft drive just to get away from chains

I've had a Tuturo Chain Oiler on my bike since I got it.  Nearly 10K miles now and I've tightened the chain once.  Have just changed from the manual version to an automatic one.  Easy to fit and seems

  • 3 weeks later...
Newoldbiker

I've had a Tuturo Chain Oiler on my bike since I got it.  Nearly 10K miles now and I've tightened the chain once.  Have just changed from the manual version to an automatic one.  Easy to fit and seems to do the job.  I buy their special oil from them.  Ride 40 weeks a year (teacher :-) ), rain or shine, 50 miles a day.  Love my NC.  They claim the oiler extends chain life 3-7 times its life compared to not using it......we'll see :fear:

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Mike5100

I've had a Tuturo Chain Oiler on my bike since I got it.  Nearly 10K miles now and I've tightened the chain once.  Have just changed from the manual version to an automatic one.  Easy to fit and seems to do the job.  I buy their special oil from them.  Ride 40 weeks a year (teacher :-) ), rain or shine, 50 miles a day.  Love my NC.  They claim the oiler extends chain life 3-7 times its life compared to not using it......we'll see :fear:

I'm just coming up to 9k miles in 1 year - ride it all through the winter.  Have adjusted the chain once also .... but I don't use a tutoro or Scotoiler.  Nor have I cleaned the chain yet, but the dealer did at 8250 miles.  I adjusted it once and the dealer may have done so too.  My last chain (on my 700X went at 14k miles, but I have come to the conclusion that it failed because I wasn't drying it after washing the bike.  This one I have always dried off with my Sidekick blaster.

Mike

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my 700 Integra did 13000miles on it's chain when i part X'ed it for the 750, i never had to adjust it once.; The 750 needed a new chain at 5000 miles,

i look after my chains so whats going on, can't be the extra Umph cos there is not that much more..

Lyn.

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lipsee

The holy grail of long chain life has to be a chain case,,,anything else is a case of treating the symptoms instead of treating the causes......I believe a chain can be treated much like a shaft or belt (interms of long life and fit and forget)with a high qualitity chain case fitted..Yamaha once long ago fitted a case too a 1000ccc vee twin.it was packed with grease,chains where lasting years and years,as long as the bike(which was abit of a dog,and never sold in numbers)but that is beside s the point..Question is would Motorcyclists buy a bike with a chain case fitted,it may be seen as abit of a fuddy duddy,,,OK I will now shut up and crawl back in my hole!!!!!

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The holy grail of chain life is continuous lubrication of the chain and the sprockets. They must be always wet. An oil bath system is the best but it's very difficult to implement one on a motorcycle. So we've to compromise with a total loss system like the known oilers like Scottoiler, Tutoro, ProOiler, Loobman, PDOiler, etc... Anything else, will add weight, it will be bulky, and difficult to inspect and maintain... 

 

Of course it must be always well adjusted, and use the proper lubricant (it must contain MoS2), manual gear box oil is great.

In general, gravitational oilers (Tutoro, Scottoiler vSystem, etc) are a pain, because you've to adjust them according to temperature, speed and use a lubricant with a viscosity that will work for that temperature...

 

Electronic oilers (Scottoiler eSystem, PDOiler, etc) don't have this, but you still have to adjust them for speed, unless they're smart enough and take this parameter automatically by GPS or other sensor (Pro Oiler)... It's still good to use the proper viscosity to help their pump...

 

This is one system that is used by the industry:

Oil-bath-lubrication.jpg

Others:

S2B.jpg

automatic-lubricator-chain-16444-2730497

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Rocker66

The enclosed chain on my MZs worked very well and with it's rubber gaiter type cover was easy to maintain. The cover weighted very little

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Today's oil bath: BMW C 600 Sport / C 650 GT.

 

BMWC600SportC650GTFirstRide11.jpg

 

web-P90085370.jpg

 

There is no owner's maintenance... Elegant, safe, not so heavy, but more complex design, and additional cost.

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In this case you bring up the sprocket's and pivot's axis seem to be coincident, thus avoiding the need for chain slack and making the enclosure easier to achieve than on a normal motorcycle.

Today's oil bath: BMW C 600 Sport / C 650 GT.

BMWC600SportC650GTFirstRide11.jpg

web-P90085370.jpg

There is no owner's maintenance... Elegant, safe, not so heavy, but more complex design, and additional cost.

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I didn't know those C600/650 Beemers had a fully enclosed chain. Nice piece of design that. Oh, how I wish Honda had done something similar on the Integra!

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my 700 Integra did 13000miles on it's chain when i part X'ed it for the 750, i never had to adjust it once.; The 750 needed a new chain at 5000 miles,

i look after my chains so whats going on, can't be the extra Umph cos there is not that much more..

Lyn.

New chain at 5,000 miles? Disgraceful. Honda should hang their corporate head in shame.

What did you replace it with?

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I like the BMW enclosed chain, should get excellent life without the cost of shafts/bevels. As and when the chain needs replacing it's still low cost.

 

ref the blue sprocket with the oiling holes in Stelios' post, this is a version of the oil feed into the gearbox sprocket I have on my SV650, with the grooves machined to line up with the roller of the chain. It also has a lip in line with the sideplate O-rings to fling oil directly where it's needed. The oil gets delivered into the alum cone on the outer side and then via slots and cross-drillings to both sides of the sprocket.

 

IMG_4498Small.jpg

 

IMG_4488Small.jpg

 

The version I have on the Integra is a little simpler with just a very small gap between the alum sides and the sprocket to get an even spread of the oil. I decided there was just a little too much machining time in the SV version. It seems to work OK.

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New chain at 5,000 miles? Disgraceful. Honda should hang their corporate head in shame.

What did you replace it with?

Gold X ring and it costalot :shocked:

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I like the BMW enclosed chain, should get excellent life without the cost of shafts/bevels. As and when the chain needs replacing it's still low cost.

 

ref the blue sprocket with the oiling holes in Stelios' post, this is a version of the oil feed into the gearbox sprocket I have on my SV650, with the grooves machined to line up with the roller of the chain. It also has a lip in line with the sideplate O-rings to fling oil directly where it's needed. The oil gets delivered into the alum cone on the outer side and then via slots and cross-drillings to both sides of the sprocket.

 

IMG_4498Small.jpg

 

IMG_4488Small.jpg

 

The version I have on the Integra is a little simpler with just a very small gap between the alum sides and the sprocket to get an even spread of the oil. I decided there was just a little too much machining time in the SV version. It seems to work OK.

do you have a drawing please?

Lyn.;

PS:>

The Yamaha T-Max had a sealed chain case with twin High Vo chains from 1999 up until the MK4 that now has a belt drive.;

Edited by kayz1
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The Yamaha T-Max had a sealed chain case with twin High Vo chains from 1999 up until the MK4 that now has a belt drive.;

I looked closely at the T-Max before buying the Integra. The belt was attractive (although the 12K replacement interval wasn't) but the fuel consumption and CVT were less so, compared with the NC-D.

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Sorry Lyn, I have no drawings. If I only intend to make a one-off I usually just work from scrap sketches with key dimensions as I go. As often as not I decide it would be different if I did a second one anyway. As said, that was for an SV650 and I had to drill the sprocket.

 

The NC g/box sprocket has holes in it as standard, so I used those for connecting the 2 side pieces through with suitable bolts. The holes are something like 6mm so I fitted some hollow dowels through to align everything then used (I think) 4mm bolts to hold it all together. I have a few more pics which I'm more than happy to email if you wish, just drop me a message with your email.

 

The 750 has a 17T at the g/box while the 700 is 16T, so diameters will be different anyway.

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sent you a PM Murray. Cheers Lyn.

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lipsee

Today's oil bath: BMW C 600 Sport / C 650 GT.

 

BMWC600SportC650GTFirstRide11.jpg

 

web-P90085370.jpg

 

There is no owner's maintenance... Elegant, safe, not so heavy, but more complex design, and additional cost.

HI there,,Thanks for posting Stelios,I did not realise that those big BM scooters where chain drive,,Now that to me is a chain case,you call it an "Oil Bath",No matter.I think we know what we are talking about..I think it would have been perfect on the NC...Its a good idea to have the chain sprocket on the pivot point,its really good for the chain life,,the CCM 450 has that also..I think with a chain case like that fitted with some kind of lubrication you should expect up to 50,000 miles from your chain..( or your money back)and to my eyes it does not look too bad,,,I notice it seems to be fitted with a chain tensioner,much like you see on cam chains in cars,,,food for thoughtt!!!!!

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lipsee

Just looking again at the BM that Stelios posted and I am really gob smacked!!! it not only looks good ,but its totally functional as well..It not rocket science to build such a case,,and to my mind would not cost much for the manufacturers to fit in the factory..Perhaps they think we,ll save too much cash on chains and sprockets!!!!

Edited by lipsee
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TheEnglishman

Just looking again at the BM that Stelios posted and I am really gob smacked!!! it not only looks good ,but its totally functional as well..It not rocket science to build such a case,,and to my mind would not cost much for the manufacturers to fit in the factory..Perhaps they think we,ll save too much cash on chains and sprockets!!!!

 

 

Your average - thats average - rider does 4000 miles a year and sells the bike after 2 or 3 years.  Many owners won't even adjust the chain, let alone replace one.

 

So why would a manufacturer add to the cost of a bike when your average user will only notice a more expensive bike, without any benefits.

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lipsee

Your average - thats average - rider does 4000 miles a year and sells the bike after 2 or 3 years.  Many owners won't even adjust the chain, let alone replace one.

 

So why would a manufacturer add to the cost of a bike when your average user will only notice a more expensive bike, without any benefits.

maybe it would add to the cost,,but in the volumes that Honda makes the cost would be quite small...I could certainly see the cost being less then £30 per bike,,,add to that they could advertise more or less as a competitor to shaft drive BM,s...

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I'm sure that Honda has done its math & investigation. Most motorcycle riders I know, they don't care about it... They just change chains... Most of them, criticise me that I'm excessive about the chain and maintenance in general...

 

So? There is no reason for Honda and any Honda to adopt any system like this. Don't forget the rider factor... I'm sure a move to this direction will have a negative effect to Honda.

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lipsee

Stelios you think it would be a negative for Honda,I disagree,,it would be a one off in the bike market! diffinatly a selling point..Think about it ,people buy shaft drive just to get away from chains,and of couse there are belts...adding a chain case would add something new ,and bring back something old that did not deserve to be lost in the first place..You say you are excessive about chain maintenance,well instead of getting you hands dirty you could be out riding instead,,A big plus I think !!!

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1 big problem I see with it is the fact you can not easy check or see if the chain needs adjusting and if it lets go you will have a load of extra damage.

 

Best bet is get a shaft drive you only need to change the oil every 4 years and you always get perfect gear changes :cheer:

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