Rust & corrosion evident

[Rocker66 34,375]

50 minutes ago, machinman said:

I think youve jumped the gun again Rocker. Andy was implying that the bikes mentioned are marketed as leisure items and not transport tools. Remember, people buy with their eyes, hence shiny bits and race replicas sell (though declining fast). The majority of folk wont drool over a mudguard.

 

It was the comments like cookie cutting dentist and account rebels that I found unacceptably rude. There are many different types of HD owners from different walks of life just as there are with other makes of bike. I mean there are even people on here who own or have owned HDs.

[Tex 36,816]

The Leader was a brilliant concept, but, even then sales weren’t amazing. As you rightly say, Andy, the Leader was the ‘last gasp’ of the ‘traditional’ (bought for transport) motorcycles. The new breed of (sporting) rider would strip all the bodywork off in search of lighter weight and macho looks. No one needed bikes as transportation anymore, after cars (once the province of wealthy professionals) had reached the masses.

 

If someone answered our (your) prayers and made a modernised version, a weatherproof, easy to clean (and stay clean while riding it) machine how well do you think it’d sell? Somewhere between ‘not at all’ and ‘poorly’ would be my guess. 

 

Scooters? Someone recently posted up about the amount of ‘under the bodywork’ effort that’s required to keep one decent. Out of sight, out of mind..

[Andy m 23,473]

There is no need to change the looks. Use chassis paint instead of whatever this stuff is they use on Honda swing arms. Use sealed IP68 rated electrical connectors instead of the open spade  type. Include a hugger in the design. Electronics on commercial trailers last 7 years untouched, the axles and chassis twice as long, run 359 days a year.

 

What would change is the selling price, margins and weight. The paint would cost 30 to 100 quid extra depending on numbers done and investment. The electrical connectors cost 5p more each, a tenner per bike. Honda have all these parts in their car division. The hugger would cost pence at a model upgrade.

 

So Honda now have to present MCN with a bike 10 kg heavier and £100 more than the competitors. The journalists won't know that IP68 is and will ask if it'll do a wheelie.  It gets worse. In the car industry, your Simca and Allegro where you could push a biro through the wings at 4 years old started an arms race. Nissan, Proton etc. started giving 7 year anti- corrosion warranties. It became no longer a normal state to visit your dealer once a year for a decoke and a bit of welding. Your 7 year old Ford suddenly seems worth keeping so you don't buy a new one or visit the car supermarket if you just need bigger or faster. They won't make this mistake again.

 

Given the market wants shiny that will indeed not drive change. I think the only hope is that the Chinese may decide to build their reputation and break the market in doing so. Seems unlikely too.

 

The paint on the Enfield BTW I would rate at the same level as Hondas. They charge less for it though, which makes me think cheap tat is maybe a better deal. Hondas wiring is slightly better but Schmitz, Krone, DAF, MAN etc. would still laugh at them.

 

Andy   

Edited April 8, 2018 by Andy m

[Spindizzy 7,109]

Got to agree with Andy here. If they made machines that lasted the competition kills them on cost, weight and maybe handling. Same goes for weather protection. Those of us wanting practicality have  a more limited offering.

 

Its a shame they cant improve the electrics and paint. I fix planes that have  been flying in all weathers and live outside built in 1979. The paint back then was proper solid and protective, but needed some stripper that the EU perhaps wisely banned. Something to do with causing genetic changes.... Problem is the new paints just don't protect or adhere properly. Easy to strip with bunny hugging strippers but all the same its not as good. Also the metal itself isnt as good, the Alclad furs up easier and loves intergranular corrosion. Sloppier builds too without isolating dissimilar metals or building with proper sealing agents. Had to do a spar change on a 4yr old plane, thats ridiculous. The electrics are still ok, planes use coated copper wire and sealed connectors that last ruddy years and don't go furry, wouldn't be hard to put in to bikes but its more labour intensive to manufacture.

 

So I am seeing corners cut in aviation to cheapen the builds with the result that maintenance down the line is more expensive, but they just want to shift product for as much dosh as possible with minimum build cost.

 

Market is shifting to composite aircraft. Cheaper to produce, lighter but brings its own issues. Not sure if bikes will move to being more composite based and ditch the monkey metal. I hope things change where people frown at buying what doesn't last, but all the time style trumps longevity and practicality they will sell what the market demands. 

 

 

 

[neojynx 722]

I do around 800 miles a week and have ridden throughout the winter.  Every weekend I use Muc off, then spray the bike with a power washer, then hand dry it and finally finish of with ACF 50.  EVERY weekend.

 

My bike still looks like new, even though in the worst weather it was disgusting, covered in salt etc.

 

Keep it maintained and no, once a winter ACF isnt good enough.  I dont do a full ACF respray every weekend but cover the full exterior and then wipe it down. Immaculate

 

[Guest machinman]

24 minutes ago, neojynx said:

I do around 800 miles a week and have ridden throughout the winter.  Every weekend I use Muc off, then spray the bike with a power washer, then hand dry it and finally finish of with ACF 50.  EVERY weekend.

 

My bike still looks like new, even though in the worst weather it was disgusting, covered in salt etc.

 

Keep it maintained and no, once a winter ACF isnt good enough.  I dont do a full ACF respray every weekend but cover the full exterior and then wipe it down. Immaculate

 

Impessive milage Mr.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

30 minutes ago, neojynx said:

Every weekend I use Muc off, then spray the bike with a power washer, then hand dry it and finally finish of with ACF 50.  EVERY weekend.

 

Good for you, mate, but there's no way on earth I'd be prepared to do that.  I find such activities desperately tedious.  Especially when I think that I don't have to do any of that to my car.  Every few weeks, when I can no longer tell what colour it is, I take it to the local car wash, hand over £6.99 and it's done.

 

My previous car (a Honda Legend) was 22 years old when I scrapped it due to an expensive mechanical fix being required, and it had no visible rust anywhere on the bodywork.  Whatever rust there was underneath (I never looked) was obviously not sufficient to fail an MoT, or even generate an advisory.  I've now got a 15-year-old Yaris and a 14-year-old Lexus and both have immaculate bodywork and fly through their MoTs.

 

Thus I feel that we motorcyclists are having the piss taken by the manufacturers.

 

Also, perhaps it undermines the claim that they don't want to make bikes last a long time because it would reduce sales.  Cars these days last at least twice as long as they did when I was a young driver, but the motor industry is thriving.

[Rocker66 34,375]

Could it be because the majority of cars are bought as serious transport whilst like it or not the majority of bikes are bought as leisure items. The number of low mileage used bikes for sale would seem to point to this.

This being an NC it has a higher proportion of people using there bikes to commute whilst I’m sure many other forums have very few. 

[DaveM59 1,603]

Brakes from a 2004 X9 after 70,000 which get a clean every couple of years but otherwise ignored.

 [/img

Same bike a couple of weeks ago stripped of all the plastics fairly clean considering.

The Integra which is 2012 and was only 16,000 miles was in a dirtier state when I stripped it down when I first got it 2 years ago. I got a good half bucketful of soil and road stones out from various places and had to paint several areas on the frame that were showing signs of surface rust. The X9 just needs a blast with the hosepipe although I do paint the centre stand and lower chassis tubes but it's mainly for looks because the scooter stand foot lever touches the ground when the stand is in use so gets scraped all the time.

 

[Tex 36,816]

Thanks Dave, it was you I was thinking about earlier. I knew ‘someone’ knew all about high mileage and scooters.  

[Black Marauder 100]

49 minutes ago, Tex said:

Thanks Dave, it was you I was thinking about earlier. I knew ‘someone’ knew all about high mileage and scooters.  

  Tex, Do you remember the Leader 700cc -shaft drive & with twin headlights ARIEL experimented with & Velocette did a copy the Vogue ...in fibreglass !!!

Edited April 8, 2018 by Black Marauder
missed Leader!

[Tex 36,816]

David, yes. It’s alive and well and living in the National Motorcycle Museum in Solihull. Ariel invented the K1000 30 years before BMW did. But only one was a success (sigh). 

[Tonyj 6,907]

Trouble is steve you live upp t North , sun is always out down south . Just wash the bike like the saying little and often then it's not such a big deal . 

What really gets my goat is the fact I have to keep making my bed . I mean why can't I have crinkly sheets surely Mr Sleepezze would've should've done something about it now . Ccom get your act together bedsheet makers I've got other stuff to do like go on forums and moan about chemical reaction and inclement weather 😂😂

schhsh we know Harley's fall to bit in the rain and they are made out of industrial metal 😇

oh my friend is selling a 1200 sportster 2005 5k on the clock , he says it's one with factory upgrades from new . IE the last one . Thought they've only ever made one bike so if it means anything to anyone and they are interested , pm me and I will pass his number over 

[Trev 18,572]

8 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

 

My previous car (a Honda Legend) was 22 years old when I scrapped it due to an expensive mechanical fix being required, and it had no visible rust anywhere on the bodywork.  Whatever rust there was underneath (I never looked) was obviously not sufficient to fail an MoT, or 

 I think your words above Steve throw some light on the issue, if you have a good crawl around under most new cars you will see signs of light corrosion, discoloration or deterioration on many components after a year or two but the bodywork hides it where as on many bikes it's on full view.

 

I'm with you in that life's too short for cleaning protecting a bike after every few rides let alone every one, if you want a bike as a shiny plaything then get another for commuting/wet weather riding and keep the other for best and save your self hours of your life that you'll never get back. Bikes like the NC are cheap enough that the difference in depreciation between an immaculate one and a well used one will be only a few hundred pounds at most. Not enough to see me cleaning a bike after every ride ..... or even every month 

[Tonyj 6,907]

My earlier response was somewhat tongue in cheek about the futility of everyday chores really and I sit closer to the wish I didn't have to do it gang but if you ride in all weathers then cleaning is more about maintenance then appearance . I have made a similar  observation myself about the quality of certain product to withstand the elements but I think they all stand together . The manufacturers that is . They will give us what they can at a certain price level and the supplying company will review that and send something a little bit cheaper .

rusty fixings aside if you are pelted with stones and covered in salty water , left for a few weeks see how you fair 😀.

this is why classic vehicles show up with regularity coming from California and not Arbroath or Cornwall .

I am not such an able mechanic but can clean , so I do my bit . Mine has 16k albeit a couple of hundred miles an is 15 months old and still looks good , so cleaning does have an effect to the exterior parts .

The words winter hack spring to mind and in London it might just be the way forward . It might just still be there when I get back . 😀

Edited April 9, 2018 by Tonyj

[DMB 1,341]

23 hours ago, Rocker66 said:

It was the comments like cookie cutting dentist and account rebels that I found unacceptably rude. There are many different types of HD owners from different walks of life just as there are with other makes of bike. I mean there are even people on here who own or have owned HDs.

 

It depends how you 'hear' it.  You heard it as an unacceptably rude attack.  I heard it as a gentle rib tickle.

[Rocker66 34,375]

25 minutes ago, DMB said:

 

It depends how you 'hear' it.  You heard it as an unacceptably rude attack.  I heard it as a gentle rib tickle.

Maybe but it gets boring when one group of riders are constantly insulted by certain members of the forum. As Tex says we are all people who enjoy motorcycling bu just choose to,do so if different ways. A friend of mine Ian has a HD an old Kawasaki and has just bought one of the new retro Kawasakis so I don’t t know how they would classify him. As a matter of fact he doesn’t wear any club colours or leather chaps he doesn’t have a posh job unless you think driving a train is posh. Yet Andy still Brands all HD owners the same. He does the same thing with sports bike riders.

[Guest DelBoy]

On 4/7/2018 at 18:36, Rocker66 said:

You are quite right and I don’t see where BSB comes into it either as people were riding race replicas long before that was thought of.

BTW thank you to your team for taking 2 points off the red side of city today  so that we are now level with them except on GD.

And we have a game in hand :-)

[arengle 449]

I think we also need to look at which part is rusting and if that part will on the bike for rest of the life. I have small rust points on the brake disk, front and rear, around the ABS holes, but I don't bother with that because will be a mater of miles until the disk brakes will be replaced. I also have rust at the swing arm end caps, the ones that hold the screw for wheel alignment, this are not supposed to be changed but they are so small and probably cheap that I don't bother. The part that do bother me is the swing arm linkage, have rust, not a lot but I think this will never be change during bike life, so I think with this Honda did made a design error.

[Spindizzy 7,109]

2 hours ago, Rocker66 said:

 Yet Andy still Brands all HD owners the same. He does the same thing with sports bike riders.

 

All things considered I welcome Andy's very special brand of forum reply. Usually makes me snort tea out my nose. The point is to laugh with it rather than resent it. Or find something humorous to say about tank jacket wearing Pugh riders. Must be a lead in there somewhere, lacking in dentists though methinks 

 

I fancy a go on a Harley just for the hell of it, but know sod all about dentistry so I guess its not for me. Also the thought of being 'One of the Clan' makes me shudder. I have managed to lose some weight so just maybe I can join the Power Rangers.

 

Very good point raised about cars not showing the tarnished bits in an earlier post. Look under the painted panels and cars do look grotty. Light rust on springs & discoloured wishbones etc. Not rotten but not pretty and very much out of sight. Bikes don't have that luxury unless we start to want bikes where most of that is sealed inside a plastic cocoon.....rather like a car.

 

(Caveat, all the the above is nonsense)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rocker66 34,375]

But why did he feel the need to have yet another dig at HD and their riders when it actually nothing to do with corrosion on Honda’s. It was just another chance to show his dislike of HDs .

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

Sigh.        

[Guest machinman]

Im not keen on HDs or power rangers. They probably take the piss out of my 50 horse NC. Anyone care?

Andy, has got a sense of humour, a good sense of humour at that.

Look at all the bad things going on in the world at the moment. Why are you so sensitive over a bit of banter?

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by machinman
Typo again

[Trev 18,572]

28 minutes ago, machinman said:

Im not keen on HDs or power rangers. They probably take the piss out of my 50 horse NC. Anyone care?

Andy, has got a sense of humour, a good sense of humour at that.

Look at all the bad things going on in the world at the moment. Why are you so sensitive over a bit of banter?

 

 

We know Rocker can, just occasionally , be a little 'oversensitive' but he does have a point, making silly stereotypical views about other bikers is all a bit naff. When made by someone who rides a retro bike and wears an open face helmet & riding goggles it gets bit difficult to tell whether he's being serious or taking the p**s out of himself but I like to think Andy's sense of humour is so good that it extends to the latter  He does it to provoke a response so shouldn't be surprised when he gets one and, as he certainly doesn't seem to mind, we probably shouldn't care much either.

 

Not sure why you're not keen on HD's or power rangers, does that mean you don't like the owners/riders (sweeping statement unless of course you've met them all in which case you're of course well placed to make a judgement) or you've owned or ridden cruisers and sports bikes and not enjoyed the experience? Leaving  aside the riders themselves for a minute, I've tried both, the cruiser/Harley thing not really for me (at least up until now, I rule nothing out) but I've enjoyed riding and owning many sportsbikes (even before they were called that). Riding a sportsbike at anywhere near close to it's capability is one of the very particular joys of riding a bike and, a bit like yourself, I don't care if NC owners take the piss out of my 168 bhp GSXR 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by Trev

[Rocker66 34,375]

25 minutes ago, machinman said:

Im not keen on HDs or power rangers. They probably take the piss out of my 50 horse NC. Anyone care?

Andy, has got a sense of humour, a good sense of humour at that.

Look at all the bad things going on in the world at the moment. Why are you so sensitive over a bit of banter?

 

 

A bit of banter is fine but the constant digging is more than a bit of banter especially when it’s brought into a completely unrelated discussion.

No wonder motorcyclist are such an easy target for governments to legislate against when there is so much division between the different groups. When I started riding there was far more comerardarie