whoops - 16k service error

[Mike5100 2,061]

I thought the price was a bit too cheap - the dealer has done an 8k service rather than the 16k. It's an understandable mistake as the bike speedo shows only 8900 miles but that's because they changed it under warranty at 8000 miles and they have forgotten (Mind you it's clearly marked in the book and my emails said it was a 16k service).

So I'm hoping the technically minded on here will offer their opinions on whether I should put it back in for the extras to be done.

I'm presuming they will have put it on their diagnostic and this tells them whether the valves need doing.- and they haven't done them

I'm not too bothered about the changing of the air cleaner as northern Britain isn't a very dusty place to ride, but they should have done the clutch oil filter and I am worried that this may be very important for the DCT.

They were also supposed to change the brake fluid - and it certainly looks very pale and clear so perhaps they have done that.

Thoughts people?

Mike

 

[Guest robin]

If he'll do it free. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. It'll get a 16000 service next time.

[Guest efhell]

Regarding the clutch filter, I would ask if has been done (make him swear on someone's life).

When I had my 600 mile service done I asked the mechanic/technician if he had changed the clutch filter. He said of course.

Recently I did a 16000 mile service and when I eventually got to the filter it was rather black. I am convinced it had not been done. To get to the clutch filter is rather long winded on the Integra so I would think a yes sir is often said.

I have always been a bit sceptical re some service people.

[bazza 3,629]

maybe its the "James Bond " trick - glue a hair off your head ( if not follicly challenged) and stick it on the housing so if its still there when you get the bike back you know it's not been taken off!

Tex may know a more sophisticated way of doing this!

as to the tappets -would any diagnostic test show this up- I can't see it myself!

[Mike5100 2,061]

Can I just make it clear.  The dealer is not claiming to have done work that they haven't.  It's simply that they have done a much simpler service than was required at 16k miles because they mistakenly thought it was an 8k one.

I'd be interested to hear from embee or one of the others who post highly technical stuff as to whether the clutch filter change is essential at 16k miles.

Mike

[Trev 18,850]

I had a 16k service done at about 12k by my local non-franchised spanner twirler that I've used for years and trust implicitely as I was in between mileage and annual requirement and wanted to see whether tappets needed adjusting. He checked them but said no adjustment needed and thought unlikely they would need checking at 32k even though it would be 20k from this service - hope that makes sense!

 

I want to do all my own servicing so wanted to know whether I should be concerned about tappets as the only slightly painful part IMO. Only thing was I asked him to 'do the lot' and he even changed fork oil and brake fluid which I didn't really want doing, at least it was less than Honda would have charged.

 

In short, I would leave it although make sure clutch filter has been changed

[Griff 1,556]

I had a 16k service done at about 12k by my local non-franchised spanner twirler that I've used for years and trust implicitely as I was in between mileage and annual requirement and wanted to see whether tappets needed adjusting. He checked them but said no adjustment needed and thought unlikely they would need checking at 32k even though it would be 20k from this service - hope that makes sense!

 

I want to do all my own servicing so wanted to know whether I should be concerned about tappets as the only slightly painful part IMO. Only thing was I asked him to 'do the lot' and he even changed fork oil and brake fluid which I didn't really want doing, at least it was less than Honda would have charged.

 

In short, I would leave it although make sure clutch filter has been changed

 

I can't speak for the clutch filter as I have a foot change. However I can speak for the valve clearances as I did them myself, and read the accounts of others who did so also, or had them checked by a dealer. My finding and that of others, was that the valve clearances were tight on the first checking. I did mine around 20,000Kms. If they were not tight at 12,000 Miles as suggested above, then I suspect that they certainly will be at 32,000 miles. If they are correctly adjusted at the first checking, then I suspect they will not need adjustment at subsequent services as the valves will have settled on their seats sufficiently. Therefore if anything, subsequent services will reveal loose tappets. Loose tappets (within reason) are ok, while tight ones are not.  

 

The fact that I can check my own valve clearances is yet another plus with regard to this little bike. It has only ever seen the inside of the dealers once for replacement of the rear wheel bearings under warranty.

[CFB 4,602]

I have recently done the 8k service on mine.

I found the exhaust clearances were tight on cylinder 1, inlet spot on, but it was the reverse on cylinder 2, but only 1 inlet valve was tight.

Clutch filter was a little dirty but that was probably just due to the colour of the old oil.

Doing your own service is quite easy if you have the know how and a basic tool kit.

The awkward bit is getting the rocker cover off and back on! What a pain in the proverbial.

[Mike5100 2,061]

Been researching some other threads.  About 18 months ago Bonekicker said:

This is what my dealer said about my previous bike CB500X and my present bike NC750X --- if we check on our workshop laptop and the bike shows no adverse signs we don't do the valve checks, out of all the bikes we have sold we have only done 1 bike??????

... Does anyone else have info that backs this up because my bike was/is running like a dream and I was nervous that them adjusting the valves at 16k could only make it worse.  So I was considering asking them not to do it - as it happens they have accidentally not done it anyway.

And another thread implies that if you lean the bike well over to the left it may be possible to change the DCT oil filter without emptying all the oil out first.  Whaddya think?

Mike

[Tex 36,817]

Definitely change the filter. The fact that it's 'every other' oil change leads me to suspect that Honda have worked out a safe interval of change. From memory, not much oil comes out of the clutch filter housing with the bike upright. So with it on the sidestand you should be fine. For an owner to make the decision to not check the valves is one thing. For a dealer not to do it out of sheer laziness is disgraceful.

[Mike5100 2,061]

Definitely change the filter. The fact that it's 'every other' oil change leads me to suspect that Honda have worked out a safe interval of change. From memory, not much oil comes out of the clutch filter housing with the bike upright. So with it on the sidestand you should be fine. For an owner to make the decision to not check the valves is one thing. For a dealer not to do it out of sheer laziness is disgraceful.

Yes - ref your last point Tex - I am sure this goes on at many dealers.  It's a lot of work and if their experience is that most of the bikes don't need adjusting, they will see it as a good chance to take - save 4 hours of labour but still charge the client.  My last dealer had obviously done this on my previous bike and when challenged reduced my bill by £100.  I hasten to add that Honda Newcastle have not fallen into this trap - they quoted me for the full 16k service and then their engineer has obviously looked at the speedo and thought he should only be doing an 8k.  Understandable mistake but they should have called me to clarify.

Mike

[Griff 1,556]

I can't speak for the clutch filter as I have a foot change. However I can speak for the valve clearances as I did them myself, and read the accounts of others who did so also, or had them checked by a dealer. My finding and that of others, was that the valve clearances were tight on the first checking. I did mine around 20,000Kms. If they were not tight at 12,000 Miles as suggested above, then I suspect that they certainly will be at 32,000 miles. If they are correctly adjusted at the first checking, then I suspect they will not need adjustment at subsequent services as the valves will have settled on their seats sufficiently. Therefore if anything, subsequent services will reveal loose tappets. Loose tappets (within reason) are ok, while tight ones are not.  

 

The fact that I can check my own valve clearances is yet another plus with regard to this little bike. It has only ever seen the inside of the dealers once for replacement of the rear wheel bearings under warranty.

 

Sorry, I will qualify the above a little.  Some of the valve clearances were tight, not all. I half expected the Exhaust clearances to be tight, and they were. From memory one of the inlets was also.

[Griff 1,556]

This is what my dealer said about my previous bike CB500X and my present bike NC750X --- if we check on our workshop laptop and the bike shows no adverse signs we don't do the valve checks, out of all the bikes we have sold we have only done 1 bike??????

... Does anyone else have info that backs this up because my bike was/is running like a dream and I was nervous that them adjusting the valves at 16k could only make it worse.  So I was considering asking them not to do it - as it happens they have accidentally not done it anyway.

 

 

I am not sure that this is a good policy on the part of a dealer. If valve clearances tighten sufficiently then valves will burn. Not checking them today because a bike is running well may be fine today.  However what the dealer will not know is how close to being too tight they are. Accordingly another few thousand miles may allow further tightening to the point of damage.  

 

I have been doing my own tappets on bikes that allow me to do so for years. Changing the clearances does not affect performance one way or another. They will either be quieter or noisier after the check but that is all. My experience has almost always ended up with them being a little noisier. However the peace of mind is worth getting them done.  

 

 I once knew  of a dealer who checked tappets by doing a compression check on the engine. If the compression was up to scratch then in his opinion the valve clearances were fine. One of the bikes that he treated in this way, eventually ended up with a better mechanic after a change of ownership. He found that there were no clearances in several of the tappets. They were on the verge of expensive damage but were just caught in the nick of time.......

[CFB 4,602]

Been researching some other threads.  About 18 months ago Bonekicker said:

This is what my dealer said about my previous bike CB500X and my present bike NC750X --- if we check on our workshop laptop and the bike shows no adverse signs we don't do the valve checks, out of all the bikes we have sold we have only done 1 bike??????

 

 

?? So they can remotely check a mechanical operation, with no sensors involved in said process, remotely with a laptop.

 

So just how do they do that?

 

complete and utter bo larks!!

[Mike5100 2,061]

Honda Newcastle (Newcastle Motorcycles) deserve our business.  The service manager realised his mistake and is picking the bike up by van today and doing all the extra things that need doing - at no extra cost.  That's saving me about £200 on the full service price.

I should also mention that when I bought the bike from them the salesperson had misinterpreted what I had asked for when pricing it.  That meant he had neglected to include the lower air deflectors but he ordered them in for fitting at the first service at no cost.

This attitude is completely different from the fights I always had with Triumph North East who managed to give the impression that I was always in the wrong and would never take proper responsibility for their mistakes.  Triumph North East went bust a few weeks ago (or rather they lost their Triumph dealership).

Mike

[Rocker66 34,493]

Good to hear of another dealer giving really good service

[CFB 4,602]

Honda Newcastle (Newcastle Motorcycles) deserve our business.  The service manager realised his mistake and is picking the bike up by van today and doing all the extra things that need doing - at no extra cost.  That's saving me about £200 on the full service price.

I should also mention that when I bought the bike from them the salesperson had misinterpreted what I had asked for when pricing it.  That meant he had neglected to include the lower air deflectors but he ordered them in for fitting at the first service at no cost.

This attitude is completely different from the fights I always had with Triumph North East who managed to give the impression that I was always in the wrong and would never take proper responsibility for their mistakes.  Triumph North East went bust a few weeks ago (or rather they lost their Triumph dealership).

Mike

Great to hear that there are still some dealers who put the customer first.

What is it wth Triumph dealers?

I had no end of trouble with On Yer Bike in Tring.

Including, but not limited to not pursuing a warranty claim for major oil usage, which turned out to be dodgy rings on 2 cylinders.

That went right to the top and took 3 months to resolve.

Trying to charge for parts not used on 2 services. 1 oil filter I knew as I'd marked it, and a set of plugs. Yup, I had marked them too.

Good job I did as it turned out!

They lost the franchise as well.

[Mike5100 2,061]

On my Triumph Rocket I suspected that the throttle bodies (3 of them) were not balanced.  I got TuneECU off the internet and bought a £14 ODBC diagnostic cable.  Tune ECU told me they were miles out.  (Please note I only viewed the state of play, you cannot alter the TB balance with the software as it's a screw that you have to turn).  I paid Triumph £120 to do a TB balance and check something else.  They did it in 45 minutes while I waited.  But I knew from the Rocket forums that the balancing is a several hour job because of what you have to strip off to get to the front and middle carbs.  So outside their shop I connected up the laptop and cable which showed the TB balance as exactly the same as before (miles out).  I tried to defuse the situation by suggesting that their diagnostic tool wasn't sensitive enough and we/they could use my laptop to get it right.  Instead I was accused of voiding the warranty by having connected up the laptop in the first place which must have altered them back and may have damaged the ECU.   I paid another Rocket owner to help me do it ourselves in his garage - it took us about 4 hours but we managed it and the bike ran much better afterwards.

Mike

[PNE 96]

Been researching some other threads.  About 18 months ago Bonekicker said:

This is what my dealer said about my previous bike CB500X and my present bike NC750X --- if we check on our workshop laptop and the bike shows no adverse signs we don't do the valve checks, out of all the bikes we have sold we have only done 1 bike??????

... Does anyone else have info that backs this up because my bike was/is running like a dream and I was nervous that them adjusting the valves at 16k could only make it worse.  So I was considering asking them not to do it - as it happens they have accidentally not done it anyway.

And another thread implies that if you lean the bike well over to the left it may be possible to change the DCT oil filter without emptying all the oil out first.  Whaddya think?

Mike

  

?? So they can remotely check a mechanical operation, with no sensors involved in said process, remotely with a laptop.

 

So just how do they do that?

 

complete and utter bo larks!!

This worries me because I think bonekicker used the same group of dealerships I use.

[Guest dentonlad]

  

This worries me because I think bonekicker used the same group of dealerships I use.

He did. IIRC it was someone at Preston Honda - the one that's now closed........

[Guest Grumpy]

It is now in Wigan