well my ABS light stay's on - suggestions?

[bazza 3,629]

Due to mechanical incompetence I think I have damaged my ABS sensor on the rear wheel of the bike.I put the sensor ring on the OUTSIDE of the disc and it caused some damage -without even riding it.

I got the thin metal disc sorted -a 50 ton press with purpose made tool soon got that as accurate as possible but the cost of the pulsing thingy is £200 from Honda!

so looking for a breaker who has one in the yard - surely not too tricky? The ring from Honda is £75,breakers price £25 so expect a pulsar unit for similar money

If you know of any NCs being broken i would appreciate it

Think its part number 38510-MGS-D81

bazza the incompetent.

 

[DaveM59 1,605]

Spares Unlimited (Lockwoods) at Huddersfield have a 700 one. £24 on Fleabay, but are you sure you have knackered the old one? Have you physically damaged it or just going off the light not going out, which as you know it doesn't do until you ride above 6mph for a few yards.

 

SCB Motorcycles in Lothian have a 750 rear calliper bracket complete with sensor for £30 also on Fleabay.

Edited April 21, 2016 by DaveM59

[Guest bonekicker]

Mr Bazza --good advice from Mr Dave about---you clumsy git  Never mind --we all live and learn.   

[DaveM59 1,605]

...and whilst on the subject of sensor rings, can they be painted and still work? Mine are beginning to look a little tatty, particularly on the inner side which probably doesn't get as good a clean. I was wondering if I cleaned then off then slapped some silver paint on them being careful not to block any of the slots, would it make any difference.

[embee 7,288]

The sensors are magnetic devices, usually a "variable reluctance" system where a coil round a magnet produces an output as magnetic objects (the spokes in the ABS ring) pass and move the magnetic field, it's effectively the same principle as a generator or alternator. It will work as long as the steel spokes are within the correct distance, paint won't affect it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor

[fred_jb 10,267]

The sensors are magnetic devices, usually a "variable reluctance" system where a coil round a magnet produces an output as magnetic objects (the spokes in the ABS ring) pass and move the magnetic field, it's effectively the same principle as a generator or alternator. It will work as long as the steel spokes are within the correct distance, paint won't affect it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor

The principle is the same, but I thought most systems these days use Hall effect semiconductor sensors, though I wouldn't be surprised if Honda are using the older cheap and cheerful coil type sensors on the NC!

 

I found some info on the TRW website which describes the different types available.

 

Fred

 

Types of ABS Sensors

 

TRW ABS Sensors have undergone a huge amount of change and development since introduction to the market, which means they are available in a variety of designs depending on specific car requirements. The two basic types are active and passive ABS Sensors.

Active sensors need an external energy source to operate and are designed for toothed/magnetic encoder wheels. There are also two types of active sensors, Hall sensors and Magneto Resistive sensors.

• The Hall sensor reacts to changes in magnetic fields with a voltage difference which is transmitted to the control unit as a clearly defined square wave signal. Hall sensors record the wheel speed via a segmented disc that rotates with the wheel or a ring with alternating magnetic fields (magnetic encoder). Hall sensors are highly precise but require a precise installation position.
• The magneto-resistive AMR sensors are currently regarded as the most advanced but also the most expensive ABS sensors. Their great advantage over the other designs is their ability to detect the rotational direction of the wheels. The signal is extremely precise and AMR sensors are practically tolerant to their installation position. The encoder disc comprises magnetic arc segments which cause a clear change in resistance when passing the sensor. For the control unit, this change acts as a parameter for the wheel’s rotational speed and direction.

Passive sensors require a toothed wheel and only start to operate when the wheel reaches a certain rotational speed. They are larger than active sensors and less precise, which means their presence in modern vehicles is becoming scarcer, but given the simplicity of the design they are easier to check and often more robust. TRW passive sensors are built with a coil around a magnetic core, this permanent magnet creates a magnetic field. As the toothed wheel turns, it changes the field, which then induces an electrical current depending on whether there is a tooth or not.

[embee 7,288]

You're probably right Fred, showing my age regarding passive sensors !

 

Either way, it'll not be sensitive to paint (within reason of course).

[bazza 3,629]

Spares Unlimited (Lockwoods) at Huddersfield have a 700 one. £24 on Fleabay, but are you sure you have knackered the old one? Have you physically damaged it or just going off the light not going out, which as you know it doesn't do until you ride above 6mph for a few yards.

 

SCB Motorcycles in Lothian have a 750 rear calliper bracket complete with sensor for £30 also on Fleabay.

Thanks Dave.

I know about the above 6mph bit but its still on.Does it reset automatically after a fault -or does it need plugging in to a laptop etc- asked my dealer by mail but he hasn't replied! No idea if these things can be repaired or even tested!

[bazza 3,629]

Thank to all - all I know is the bloody light stays on and my dealer says £200 for a new one - no chance paying that. Maybe if an MOT was due - would that light be a "fail?

 

bazza

[embee 7,288]

In case you haven't already tried, disconnect the battery for a few minutes then reconnect.

 

Also, what is the gap between the rotor and the pick-up? It needs to be within certain limits, don't know off the top of my head what they are (w/shop manual gives it).

 

Edit - manual says 0.54 - 1.14mm.

Edited April 22, 2016 by embee

[DaveM59 1,605]

...paint makes no difference. Painted both to neaten them up and light goes off, no problems.

 

An ABS lamp could be an MOT fail or certainly an advisory...but the way the Honda system works the lamp will not go off during the test as the bike will not get driven above 6mph with both wheels turning anyway. This is assuming the tester starts the engine again before doing the steering bearing and the roller brake test and the lamp relights. Maybe if it showed as a flashing light he may fail it. If he is aware of the system he may just ride the bike a few yards to check it goes off, or probably won't bother.

[Guest sidemp]

I had same problem and lived with it for a while until it just annoyed me.

removed, stripped and cleaned front caliper.. looked ok.

Removed front wheel and found small kink / ding on abs ring.. tapped it flat, reassembled, rode up the road and abs light went out as it should..

A couple of sharp moving brake tests and all is well..

I had it MOTd with it on and it passed ok.. was ready to tell him it

stays on until bike is at 15-20mph..

[Andy m 23,603]

Paint will make a difference. It will increase failures as the efectively larger airgap will weaken the signal.

The sensors on the 2016 look passive. This is a good thing as you can test them with a multimeter. Resistance will be in the tens of Ohms range, a good one will make about 1 volt AC (yes, AC, you use the smoothing circuit in the meter as a jungle oscilloscope). A good voltage is a good airgap. A steady reading shows lack of float and dings in the polewheel. 1V at 30 rpm is fine. Active sensors are a bit of fad from a few years back. Practically they were a 5% improvement for a 55% cost increase and you needed power to diagnose them.

A "reset" does nothing except move faults from the current view in the diagnostics to stored. Keying off or just giving it two good signals does the same. BMW employ clueless morons who charge £40 a go to sweep their mess under the electronic carpet in this way, don't believe their ******s, make them find the fault.

The first thing I say to trainees on the EBS technicians course is never assume its the ECU unless you can see the burn marks from the welding clamp. The most common failure on these systems is the coil in the sensors and the multiplug where the wiring goes into the ECU. You find these with a torch, meter and wiring diagram not the software. Resets and ECU replacements do wonders for sales targets though as we sell more when the wiring comes loose again 300 miles later!

Andy

[embee 7,288]

Useful stuff, Andy. I agree the paint could affect the field in the airgap to some extent, which was why I suggested paint "within reason", I'm thinking a light aerosol spray not a tar brush daub. I would imagine in practice if a thin paint film of a few thou (or tens of microns in new money) upset it then you've probably got issues anyway when it should cope with a 1.1mm airgap. Good to be being aware of potential issues.

 

Looking at the workshop manual, the fault code access and clearing procedure is nothing special, it requires a link wire in the DLC socket (diagnostic socket in the battery box according to the manual), but I suspect the link wire is just that, just a shorting link. Could there be a resistor in there? Dunno.

 

Basically you switch on with the link fitted and then pull the brake lever in a sequence along with the ABS light coming on. It'll give fault codes and you can clear them if they exist.

[DaveM59 1,605]

Slightly thinned Hammerite applied by brush has not affected the operation. Everything is working as normal.

The diagnostic socket on the Integra is up under the inner cover on the opposite side to the fuse box, a red 4 pin socket capped off.