NC700 Integra fail to start

[embee 7,288]

I've put a recognisable title to this topic for reference, but I'll tell the tale. having just "lost" a first draft, I'll do it in instalments.

 

I've recently returned from a tour of the Pyrenees with a couple of friends, me on the Integra and them on a Deau 700 and a R1200RT.

 

We met up halfway down France and moved down to the eastern side of the Pyrenees, camping in Tarascon sur Ariege, a pleasant little town convenient for rides in the hills. After a couple of days we set off to do a loop through Andorra (odd place, worth a visit to see it but not to stay, cheap petrol at 90c/litre), into Spain, and then back to France for the next stop at Bagneres de Luchon. All went well until near the end of the day we stopped for the usual pictures and cofee at the top of the Col de la Baqueira on the C28 near Vielha.

 

 

When I tried to start the Integra there was no fuel pump and no starter. Oh dear, I thought, or words to that effect.

 

We pushed the bike to the café for some shade and looked at a few things, disconnected battery, check fuses etc. but no change. Now, the interesting thing was that the first time tried to start it the gear display showed the flashing bar "fault" indicator. After disconnecting the battery it didn't do this again.

 

Anyway, time was getting on, late afternoon, and a decision had to be made. I called my breakdown, an add-on with my Aviva insurance (Bike Gold), who were excellent, checking the location etc. After the usual info exchange, they called back and said a breakdown truck would be there in 30mins. Well OK it took more like 40mins but it arrived, and bear in mind this is literally the middle of nowhere at the top of a mountain in the Pyrenees. The driver, Paco, was a lovely chap. He asked a few questions to check we'd done what we could, and then decided it had to be loaded onto the truck.

 

 

Lesson 1 - after some head scratching, Paco decided to secure the bike by fitting straps at the front up over the bottom yoke each side of the front wheel, and one at the rear wheel. This worked brilliantly, the bike was extremely stable, worth remembering if you ever need to have a bike recovered.

 

See next post ...........................

 

 

[Tex 36,817]

Oh dear! Waiting for part two with baited breath..

[embee 7,288]

Part 2 ...........

 

This was Wednesday afternoon. Paco phoned the nearest bike workshop in Vielha but they couldn't look at it until Monday, so he said back to his compound for overnight. We asked if there was camping nearby, and believe it or not, he said there was a campsite 50m from his compound. You couldn't make it up. 

 

Next day was spent trying to sort out where to take it. My friend, fluent in French, called the nearest (!) Honda dealer in France, Honda Tarbes some 200km away. The nearest one in Spain was also 200km away near Barcelona. Tarbes couldn't look at it till after the weekend but recommended a one-man workshop in Bagneres be Bigorre, still 160km away but at least in the right direction for me (north). We spoke to this chap who turned out to be a star, Luciano. http://www.motopassion65.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=69d4471445d50bed73d55f49075dea56 , and he agreed to look at it as soon as we could get it there.

 

Lesson 2 - understand your breakdown T&C's. Actually they were brilliant, but because I wanted to go to a place of my choice not theirs, plus it was going from Spain to France, it meant I forfeited the right to paid-for accommodation and a courtesy car etc. OK, that was fine by me, but know what your T&C's are.

 

Also, again you couldn't make it up, there was a campsite the other side of the road from Moto Passion, plus a supermarket and a boulangerie and a petrol station. What are the chances?

 

Paco and his daughter and I drove there the next morning, and Luciano greeted us. He spoke directly to Honda Tarbes to discuss the issue. Interestingly they said it was almost unknown for the fuel pump to cause problems, more likely an electrical gremlin and suggested to Luciano what to check. Now I should have gone by my own advice to all, whenever it's something like this it's connectors, connectors, connectors.

I hadn't spotted that the HISS light wasn't coming on with the ignition-on check. The HISS light was flashing with ign off, but I think this is controlled by the dash and not the HISS system itself. We checked the Deau for what it should do, and yes indeed the HISS light should display for a couple of seconds during the check procedure. We checked with the other key and it was the same, so almost certainly on the bike side of the HISS.

 

Lesson 3 - make sure you know EXACTLY what the display does when you power up so you can spot any anomaly.

 

Luciano checked out the right switchgear, kill switch etc, and let me tackle the fairing and plastics removal.

 

See next post ...........................

Edited September 19, 2016 by embee

[embee 7,288]

Having got into the right fairing we set to and looked at the connectors. There's a big blue connector which does the immobilizer system. 4 pins are used.

 

 

 

2 of the pins were nice and shiny, but the other 2 were a dull grey tarnished colour. A good dose of contact cleaner spray and several push-pulls of the connector together and switched on Pump ran, HISS light came on, and on the button it started.

 

I can't explain the relief. Not only was the bike back working but it hadn't cost me a new fuel pump.

 

Lesson 4 - remember the advice ............... CONNECTORS CONNECTORS CONNECTORS

 

Now the interesting thing was that when the problem first happened, the gear display flashing bar showed. I had been using manual mode and it all worked fine, and I had selected N when I stopped. After disconnecting the battery this had ceased to show. I'm wondering if some of the instances of DCT fault displays might be to do with this. If it was in auto while riding and it temporarily lost the HISS link, might it prompt the DCT to go into a fault mode?

 

Anyway, it ran faultlessly for the rest of the trip, and it was certainly a very useful lesson for us all, including Luciano at the workshop, and I hope it might help someone else sometime. I'll get in the fairing again and clean those pins properly, and if anyone is delving into the depths I'd suggest a quick look at that connector.

 

As a post-script, the Pyrenees are wonderful. We moved up to Oloron Ste Marie which is a very odd little town. The campsite is near a supermarket and a McD's for convenience, but I can't really say the rest of the town really did it for me. However we did a circuit south over the Col de Pierre St Martin on the NA1370/NA214/NA178 and back over the Col d'Erroymendi on the D26, which has to rate as one of the most fabulous rides I've ever done (and I've ridden a few mountain roads).

 

 

 

 

 

Lesson 5 - just do it, you're only here once.

[Guest dcordeiro]

Good for you! You not only found the problem but it didnt brake the tour down. Congrats on finding the issue!

 

That is a huge connector for just 4 pins. Wouldn't changing it to a 4 pin waterproof connector be a good idea? 

[Puglim 61]

Hi Murray,

 

What an entertaining and informative post from you....I am so glad you resolved your problem.

 

I wonder if you would share your experience of your Integra?  I have had an NC 700S DCT from new. I have only done 3000 miles in 3 years but enjoyed all my outings.  The most ambitious being in the last few days when I covered almost 600 miles over 3 days.

The majority of the time the weather was fine until the last day on the return journey.  Needless to say it chucked it down all morning!  I got soaked as you can imagine. All this leads me to thinking of changing to an Integra. I know a lot of 'true' bikers think of this as a scooter, which I suppose technically it is and shy away from it.  I did much the same when I purchased my 700s.

However as the years are moving on and I am no longer in my youth I am now looking for more comfort and seriously thinking of changing. Unfortunately my local dealers do not have a bike to test ride.  I did try one 3 years ago but could not get used to having my knees 'floating' hence the 700S.

 

If you or any other member could offer your experiences I would very much appreciated the positive and negative points of view.

 

Again, thanks for your excellent description of your holiday experience.

 

Alan

[embee 7,288]

Actually looking at it again, that blue one is for the starter pushbutton/kill/brake switch. I was mistaking the colour (Bl = black, Bu = blue). there's no reason why that connector would stop the HISS working, maybe the starter, but that wasn't the real issue. It must have been one of the other black connectors we fiddled with. Oh well, it was one of them anyway.

 

That's really confused me now ........................

Edited September 19, 2016 by embee

[embee 7,288]

Checking the bike now, the symptoms were just like when you use the kill switch, but that was definitely ruled out as four of us had all checked that. I never normally use the kill switch and no-one else had been near the bike (you can see where it was parked in the first pic). So maybe there is a problem in that blue connector but possibly to do with the kill switch wiring, that was definitely the area we were looking at. The plot thickens ........................

[Tex 36,817]

 If you or any other member could offer your experiences I would very much appreciated the positive and negative points of view.

 

Alan

Alan, rather than clutter up Murray's thread I will start a fresh one on the subject of Integras..

[Dunnster 1,650]

Thanks for the informative post Murray.

[embee 7,288]

OK, I've been studying the wiring diagram and come to the conclusion that the kill switch as shown in the clip above needs to be in the closed position to run. The power is fed up the white/yellow and it gets transferred through the closed switch to the black/reds, which then go to provide the power for the starter switch (yellow/red then goes off to the starter relay), and the black/red turns into a black at the blue connector which goes off to the fuel cut relay.

 

The ECU has a connection to the HISS and I'm guessing that if the ECU doesn't have the run signal from the kill switch being closed, it doesn't activate the HISS system.

 

I'm pretty sure now that either or both the connections of the white/yellow and the black/black-red at the big blue connector were bad, so the ECU thought the kill switch was open even though the switch was physically in the on position.

 

I think this makes sense, and would explain why the blue connector fault effectively made the HISS not function as well as stopping the fuel pump and starter push switch from operating..

[Guest Hati]

If you remember which two pins of the blue connector you found corroded, could identify the circuit from the wire colour code. Never mind, I wrote this while you posted.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Hati

[Huskyteer 1,091]

What a tale! Glad it all worked out and you found such friendly, competent mechanics.

[embee 7,288]

Indeed Alice. The thing which I'll remember is just how helpful and friendly everyone was, from Laetitia at the breakdown call-centre, Paco the recovery chap, Luciano the tech at the workshop and the anonymous Honda technician at Tarbes Honda. All top folk.

Incidentally, Luciano didn't want paying for his time, he said he was pleased to help a fellow biker get on their way. Needless to say he was "compensated" for his time and attention.

Edited September 20, 2016 by embee

[kayz1 2,928]

I do ho

 

Indeed Alice. The thing which I'll remember is just how helpful and friendly everyone was, from Laetitia at the breakdown call-centre, Paco the recovery chap, Luciano the tech at the workshop and the anonymous Honda technician at Tarbes Honda. All top folk.

Incidentally, Luciano didn't want paying for his time, he said he was pleased to help a fellow biker get on their way. Needless to say he was "compensated" for his time and attention.

 you will  let every body involved know how good the services have been, we only normally here about the bad. Thanks Murray and glad it did not kill the trip.

Lyn.

[ade 139]

Hey Murray, thanks for the heads up on this, really useful advise and food for thought for my next trip???