Cold Starting Problem

[Callisidrin 447]

Last weekend I started the bike to go to work only I noticed that moving off the bike was a bit sluggish, sluggish to the point that on a manual I'd have given it some more beans just to rev the engine a bit, only that's not a good Idea on a DCT.

Quarter mile down the road and everything is back to normal running fine. At work the bike's kept in an underground carpark (nice constant temperature) the start up and return journey was no problem.

 

Monday the same thing, first thing the bike was sluggish. Again the ride home was no problem.

 

Tuesday morning, again sluggish. This time on the return I started the bike only for it to cut out on me almost straight away. Started it again, same thing. Third time was Identical, even giving it a bit of throttle (some choice muttering could definitely be heard from the confines of my bash hat now).

Turned it off, tried again.

This time it fire up, but was sounding decidedly rough, gave it some throttle and held it at 3k for a while to get some heat up. When I let the throttle go the revs dropped well below 1k and it almost stalled, but recovered itself just enough to hold some kind of tick-over, so I let the bike warm itself up while I had a think about what had just happened.

On the journey back, the ride just didn't feel the same, the engine felt like it was pulsing slightly instead of staying at constant revs, nothing too drastic but just enough to give me the feeling that something definitely wasn't right. Under braking too it felt like the engine revs weren't dropping off fast enough for the braking to feel smooth, if you've ever kept the throttle open slightly on a DCT while braking, well that was the feeling.

(on a manual I guess it'd be like the judder you get by not pulling in the clutch until the very last minute before the engine's about to stall on you) 

Anyway, took it straight to Honda, they couldn't do anything as the bike was too hot so had to leave it with them overnight to test it when the engine was cold so they could replicate a similar situation to mine.

 

Next day, they phoned me to tell me that one of the temperature sensors had gone down and they were filing it as a warranty replacement, only thing was the part wouldn't be sent out until Honda head office agreed to it being a warranty job, so it could be a couple of days before I'd get the bike back.

Due to the sensor being integral to the correct running of the bike, I would have to be without the bike until this got fixed as they didn't  think it safe to use the bike in the mean time. The fault could cause the engine to cut out unexpectedly. No problem for me, as I had to go to Manchester for work for a few days, so they could keep it.

 

This is as far as the story has got as that phone call was yesterday, i'm not expecting the bike to be ready until late Friday or Saturday, when I'm back down South again. So more on this when I know.

 

Question, has anyone else had this happen, or a similar problem to this ? ps it's a 15 plate S-DCT.

[embee 7,288]

I'd guess from your description it will be the coolant temp sensor (air temp sensor is not as likely to cause such a big problem IMO).

 

Temp sensors are usually very reliable, they are thermistors, no moving parts or anything to go wrong, though in theory an internal connection could fail.

 

As with all other similar issues, my first comment is always "connectors, connectors, connectors". Anything with plugs and sockets or contact pins is susceptible to poor contacts, I've been bitten by this myself. Since your bike is with the workshop there's nothing you can do, but my advice generally is to remove the connector, inspect for any obvious signs of tarnishing, spray with a suitable contact cleaner or ACF50, work the connector in/out a few times to ensure the contacts, and try it again.

 

One risk with dealer workshops is if they interrogate the system and it comes up with a sensor error, they just assume it's a faulty sensor and fit a new one, whereas it may have simply been the connector. Of course refitting the connector to a new sensor fixes the problem! The coolant sensor is in the rear of the thermostat housing on the right side of the bike somewhere near your shin bone if you want to find it. The air sensor is in the airbox (air filter housing).

[PoppetM 16,847]

Uh oh. I just got rid of one ride that hated a cold start.... am now praying that Harriet starts on Tuesday after two weeks "resting". Assuming some tea leaf hasn't swiped her. 

Hope you get that fixed Callisidrin

[Tex 36,817]

Poppet, don't worry! Harriet will be like a puppy happy to see her owner again. Lots of waggy tails and happy barking.

 

Due to circumstances beyond my control my Integra sat in an unheated garage, with only a Street Triple to talk to, for the better part of four months. Not hooked up to a battery tender (no power in the garage) no nothing. Started on the first touch of the button just like it had been ridden yesterday. It's a Honda..

 

 

[Callisidrin 447]

Ok, got the text this morning to say it's ready for collection.

Just been over to collect it.

Wow what a difference, feels like new again. Apparently the test showed a faulty Engine temperature sensor, they took it off and tested it and it had gone.

Part replaced under warranty and away we go  

 

 

[Callisidrin 447]

13 hours ago, PoppetM said:

Uh oh. I just got rid of one ride that hated a cold start.... am now praying that Harriet starts on Tuesday after two weeks "resting". Assuming some tea leaf hasn't swiped her. 

Hope you get that fixed Callisidrin

PoppetM, I wouldn't worry too much, I've had Hondas for a good many years now and they are reliable. I'm sure if Harriet wasn't feeling well she'd tell you first. And as Tex rightly said, she'll be happy to see you back again yearning for a ride out.

[PoppetM 16,847]

Our Honda car usually still starts after three months of non movement in the garage, just being paranoid after vespa issues! It was a bad winter for me! 

 

glad you go that sorted Callisidirin, and under warranty! Result! 

[Tonyj 6,907]

I have a ducati  ( here we go)  it's a proper garage queen , last time it went out was to get the belts changed for its 2xyearly outing  ha ha proper ducati owner me . It's tethered to the wall via a battery tender . Poxy thing didn't start Gggrrr :0) made me smile , just like West Ham united I thought , never fail to disappoint . I think that's their Latin motto . Any way dragged the honda out and off I went . Luckily it didn't start on the day  as it pissed down and I would have been crying :0)

[djsb 493]

Mine started first time after a bit of a cough after 9 months of not being used. A freshly charged battery helped though.

[Rocker66 34,462]

7 minutes ago, Tonyj said:

I have a ducati  ( here we go)  it's a proper garage queen , last time it went out was to get the belts changed for its 2xyearly outing  ha ha proper ducati owner me . It's tethered to the wall via a battery tender . Poxy thing didn't start Gggrrr :0) made me smile , just like West Ham united I thought , never fail to disappoint . I think that's their Latin motto . Any way dragged the honda out and off I went . Luckily it didn't start on the day  as it pissed down and I would have been crying :0)

How can WHU disapoint??? Surely nobody ever expects them to do well

[Callisidrin 447]

1 minute ago, Tonyj said:

I have a ducati  ( here we go)  it's a proper garage queen , last time it went out was to get the belts changed for its 2xyearly outing  ha ha proper ducati owner me . It's tethered to the wall via a battery tender . Poxy thing didn't start Gggrrr :0) made me smile , just like West Ham united I thought , never fail to disappoint . I think that's their Latin motto . Any way dragged the honda out and off I went . Luckily it didn't start on the day  as it pissed down and I would have been crying :0)

Ah, Italian iron ! 

Looks beautiful, sound wonderful, err . . .

yep that's it.

Had a mate who had a Laverda, then a Guzzi, then a Ducati. All of them spent more time in the garage being coaxed back to life, usually due to the incredibly dodgy wiring of anything Italian (back then). Then, as now still, they're expensive to buy and expensive to keep. Much as i'd have loved to have a Duc, I'd rather have a bike that I can ride, not look at. 

[Rocker66 34,462]

One of the 69 club called Flash (sadly no longer with us) was well known on the rally scene and took his Laverda all over Europe another friend had a Guzzi on which he used to accompany me on my R90/S to rallies back in the 70s with no problems and as I have said before the only thing that gave me a problem on my Ducati was a non genuine after market clutch slave cylinder

[Tonyj 6,907]

To be fair when I dragged it out of the garage I'm not to sure that I noticed wether it was In neutral or not but the second time I check everything was right IE kill switch on , side stand not in a false neutral. Started that time so I'm going out on it tomorrow 

[Rocker66 34,462]

Which Ducati is it?

[Callisidrin 447]

Having said that, I did seriously look at getting an ST3 back in 2005. What put me off in the end was the snootiness of the dealer, the exorbitant cost of the servicing and the fact that they would't supply a loan bike while yours was being serviced (they would however send someone to collect it) and then finally the nail in the purchasing coffin was the sale price. That's what turned me to the VFR, first Honda I'd had and never looked back. Seriously If I could have afforded the price and running costs of the Duc, I would have had it.

[Guest Mac750]

I had a twin carb 1100 Guzzi, "single, twingle tingle". 

On any given day if it hinted at moisture in the atmosphere the engine would lose a cylinder left or right it wasn't bothered which, but funilly never both at once.   If it was precipitating moisture your ungolved hands experienced a mild tingle from errant electrical voltage. It was also remiss at keeping its oils within the confines of its porous casings.

  But given a dry day I loved it when it went as it should and the sun shone more brightly.  Owned it two years, tinkered with it two years and three months, the next owner kept bringing it back.   ( Hi Bob )

[Andy m 23,545]

I sold my Guzzi exactly a month after the FI needed a "Hard"/"Vauxhall" reset at the side of the A650.  2 year old 18000 mile bikes should not need the battery taking off to restore idle and unconfuse the FI.

 

The old ones could probably be sorted given skill and time, but who has the time to find all the stuff the factory stuffed up these days. There is also the sealed component issue. Just inside the warranty the speedo stopped lighting up. Its an LED and the correct fix is a new speedo unit. Thats 800 quid if the bike is 25 months old. I would have opened the unit, but would have never really trusted it again.

 

Buying policy is now, NO BMW's and nothing by "hobby" manufacturers that I can't afford the petrol and matches solution on.

 

Andy

[Rocker66 34,462]

1 hour ago, Andy m said:

I sold my Guzzi exactly a month after the FI needed a "Hard"/"Vauxhall" reset at the side of the A650.  2 year old 18000 mile bikes should not need the battery taking off to restore idle and unconfuse the FI.

 

The old ones could probably be sorted given skill and time, but who has the time to find all the stuff the factory stuffed up these days. There is also the sealed component issue. Just inside the warranty the speedo stopped lighting up. Its an LED and the correct fix is a new speedo unit. Thats 800 quid if the bike is 25 months old. I would have opened the unit, but would have never really trusted it again.

 

Buying policy is now, NO BMW's and nothing by "hobby" manufacturers that I can't afford the petrol and matches solution on.

 

Andy

And of course nothing Japanese ever goes wrong does it?  If that was true a large number of threads on this forum would be be fictitious 

[Tex 36,817]

I'm betting Piaggio don't consider themselves as 'hobbyists' either?  

[Andy m 23,545]

They should consider themselves hobbyists judging by their wiring. The man from Sumitumo would either laugh, have a heart attack or sell them the whole catalogue. You could do a more profesional job with stuff from Maplins. I've never known a Japanese loom have green connectors you could pull off with one finger at 18 months old. 

 

The trouble is numbers. The Italians have too many variants in small numbers so don't buy a loom made on a production line. I see the same at work, the trailer people buy bits and rely on someones skill with crimping pliars, the car makers set up a line and RF weld it.

 

Andy

 

 

[Spindizzy 7,109]

I was shocked when I watched Henry Cole on his Metisse Desert Racer. He took the headlight out and there were the rubbish blue unsealed crimps on all the connectors. Wire had fallen out of one (no surprises there) and was shorting out the ignition.

Bikes should have tinned copper multi strand and environmental splices. Sealed connectors. I mean its not like its all out in the elements is it...oh wait.