Storage & Ethanol

[Spindizzy 7,109]

Folks

 

Unlike many of you I am not a dedicated all winter biker, braving the elements in a heroic endeavour to frown at the lesser mortals in their cages. I ride when its cold but not because I have to, I avoid the really awful weather. Therefore during the winter my bike isn't getting regular fuel refills.

 

After some research and having had issues on boat engines laid up for the winter, for some of us (me included) should consider their fuel system. Our fuels now contain ethanol, I think its 5% currently and may go to 10%. Problem with this stuff, it goes off over time and creates gum in your tank and fuel system. Worse it absorbs moisture at a disproportionate rate. Not a problem if you still ride and refill, if you are one of those all year riders you can ignore this.

 

Some people say drain the system completely if not using a bike for a couple of moths,its an option but I use a Fuel Stabiliser that stops these gums forming and somehow keeps the fuel good for up to a year. I use Sta-Bil fuel stabiliser or any other brand designed for fuel with ethanol in, you cant overdose and it does no harm, but it does stop it going off. Only needs a tiny amount.

 

I don't see this as snake oil, or those daft 'performance enhancers'. I just think its a sensible precaution if not riding a bike much with old fuel.

 

Or just keep riding and ignore the above as its not relevant in that case.

 

 

 

 

[Guest aldmannie]

There is much hysteria on the net regarding ethanol in fuel, Honda road vehicles are designed to be used with ethanol up to 10% so the NC range will be fine.

I have left Honda scooters for months over winter with no prep whatsoever and there has never been a problem.

Perhaps tank left full is better than tank left empty, the water comes from the air in the tank so less air = less water.

 

[embee 7,288]

A very valid thread. Like aldmannie I tend to fill the tank if I'm leaving anything for more than a couple of months. I have 3 bikes and a car which I don't use during the winter months, and I've found the full tank method works fine for me. Fuel stabilisers work too.

 

Batteries are all kept fully charged, at least once a month and usually more frequently with the intelligent charger.

 

Also there's a happy medium to be struck for running them occasionally. What you definitely don't want to do is frequent starts and idling, that doesn't do anything much good. I've found once a month does the trick for me, especially the engines with carbs which I don't want to risk gumming up. Once a month is easy to remember and means for my case they only get started and run up maybe 3 times during the lay-up, minimising the undesirable effects but keeping the systems used. I start them and hold the revs at a couple of thou to speed the warm-up and aiding the lubrication of valve gear etc. If the oil has done a decent mileage and is more or less due a change anyway, I'll usually change it before laying up, though I'm not too fussy about it.

[ste7ios 469]

See "stability" on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

 

Some years ago we lost control of our s/y in a storm because every pipe, filter and tank was filled by this slime...

 

Since then we're using a stabilizer. 

[Tex 36,817]

For those of you  who really like to ensure you have all bases covered - use the 'full tank with added stabilizer' method.  Works for my lawn mower..

[glencoeman 129]

13 hours ago, aldmannie said:

There is much hysteria on the net regarding ethanol in fuel, Honda road vehicles are designed to be used with ethanol up to 10% so the NC range will be fine.

I have left Honda scooters for months over winter with no prep whatsoever and there has never been a problem.

Perhaps tank left full is better than tank left empty, the water comes from the air in the tank so less air = less water.

 

A friend of mine, who is a bike mechanic at a small bike shop, has to quite regularly sort out the aftermath of using ethanol based petrol. I  can assure you that it's not hysteria after a bike is laid up for a while. Older bikes really suffer especially if the owners have used a fuel tank sealer on their classic bike. Ethanol turns the sealant into a goo substance, which is then sucked into the carbs where it then hardens again. Unfortunately, the petrol refiners cannot tell us which petrol stations have low ethanol fuel content as it depends on the retailer, what area you live and what refinery the petrol comes from. Crazy world but it keeps the Green Party environment type people happy!

Edited October 24, 2016 by glencoeman

[Guest Monty1952]

California allows the highest ethanol content in North America and bike stores there sell several brands of ethanol busters all the time. I talked to a bike mechanic there recently and they recommend using that as a stabilizer during long periods of inactivity in particular. Someone on another forum confirmed for me that they do that and that it works. 

[steelhorseuk 1,695]

Interesting topic for sure.

 

I would of said the Winter (not-riding) period was only 5 months tops in the UK? Maybe November to March (inclusive) 

Especially with the milder winters we get when April can be wonderful. I accept regions vary though ....

 

So, there should not a problem really for you guys that store your 'modern' bikes!

-Mark- 

[Guest aldmannie]

4 hours ago, glencoeman said:

Older bikes really suffer

 

The vast majority of bikes in use on the road don't.

Its affects a very small minority of people, the coverage and fear generated by this fairly insignificant ethanol problem is disproportionate.

 

 

[Rocker66 34,489]

36 minutes ago, aldmannie said:

 

The vast majority of bikes in use on the road don't.

Its affects a very small minority of people, the coverage and fear generated by this fairly insignificant ethanol problem is disproportionate.

 

 

Strange then that the effects of ethanol is a frequent discussion in magazines dealing with  classic bikes

[Guest technophebe]

1 hour ago, Rocker66 said:

Strange then that the effects of ethanol is a frequent discussion in magazines dealing with  classic bikes

 

Perhaps old/classic bikes tend to sit around for a lot more of their lives than recently-made bikes do, and thus tend to have more problems with ethanol gunk. I would guess that preservation is far more of a concern for owners of old/classic bikes too, hence the extra coverage in those contexts?

 

Ethanol in fuel is also a fairly recent addition so it may be that modern engines are designed with that in mind, whereas bikes produced last century wouldn't have been, since petrol didn't have ethanol added back then!

Edited October 24, 2016 by technophebe

[Rocker66 34,489]

But then this century is only 16 years old and I know plenty of people riding older bikes than that so for many it is a problem. Also many riders of modern bikes lay up their machines for several months of the year and don't even do that many miles at all ergo for many it is a problem

[ted 5,744]

I just pour a bit of redex in my garden machines tanks, seems to keep them sweet 'till spring has sprung.

[Spindizzy 7,109]

1 hour ago, ted said:

I just pour a bit of redex in my garden machines tanks, seems to keep them sweet 'till spring has sprung.

redex is great for small 2 strokes stopping plug fouling. Worked for me anyway. Not sure of any other benefits

 

Regarding ethanol. My post was more about effects of storage, not so much that its ok to run with.

[ste7ios 469]

Ethanol is almost a solvent for older pipes, gaskets, etc.

 

With some googling I had find a compatibility list for VW cars or stg...

[Rev Ken 6,345]

Ethanol attacks many components, especially on older bikes. It would disolve my old Velocette Vogue's plastic/fibre glass  petrol tank, and of course we used leaded petrol, so modern petrol can burn valves and valve seats.

[ted 5,744]

Kinda reminds me about the old Pajero forum I used to go on. 

 

Loads of folk put that pink, OAT, antifreeze in their old clunkers, then wondered why their heater matrix's dissolved!

 

No one seems to have mentioned that it ate copper and brass!

 

My how they laughed, when they had to take the whole of the dash out to replace them....

[Tex 36,817]

Bugger! I read 'Pajero Forum' as 'Piaggio Forum'.. Then was puzzled why I never knew Piaggio's had a heater matrix.. (Doh!)

[ted 5,744]

Of course they do, right next to the ashtray.

[Guest Baz47]

Not conclusive evidence but, I bought a Honda petrol mower 18 months ago and during the first 6 month it was returned to the dealers 3 times for a "hunting" problem.

Each time they had to clean the carb out and told me I was leaving the fuel in too long ( 1 month between cuts as I'm not a keen gardener).

Since adding stabiliser I have had no trouble.

[Guest Mhsilverw]

On 18/11/2016 at 14:29, Baz47 said:

Not conclusive evidence but, I bought a Honda petrol mower 18 months ago and during the first 6 month it was returned to the dealers 3 times for a "hunting" problem.

Each time they had to clean the carb out and told me I was leaving the fuel in too long ( 1 month between cuts as I'm not a keen gardener).

Since adding stabiliser I have had no trouble.

In UK what 'stabilser' any recommendations and suppliers?

[Spindizzy 7,109]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Briggs-Stratton-Additive-Stabiliser-992381/dp/B003374F9E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1479636413&sr=8-4&keywords=sta-bil+fuel+stabilizer

 

Or this stuff, other retailers are available (Boat Chandlers often sell it or equivalent) 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/STA-BIL-22208-Fuel-Additive-Stabilizer/dp/B00125ZMD2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479636496&sr=8-1&keywords=sta-bil+fuel+stabilizer

Edited November 20, 2016 by Spindizzy

[Guest Mhsilverw]

20 hours ago, Spindizzy said:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Briggs-Stratton-Additive-Stabiliser-992381/dp/B003374F9E/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1479636413&sr=8-4&keywords=sta-bil+fuel+stabilizer

 

Or this stuff, other retailers are available (Boat Chandlers often sell it or equivalent) 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/STA-BIL-22208-Fuel-Additive-Stabilizer/dp/B00125ZMD2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479636496&sr=8-1&keywords=sta-bil+fuel+stabilizer

 

Thank you.