DCT engine labouring

[embee 7,288]

Bearings are fine, a car engine (which is what the NC is based on, right down to part numbers for con-rods and big end bearings) will run at wide open throttle down to idle speed. I remember calibrating a 6cyl engine down to 600rpm full throttle.

 

It's only the firing intervals and effect on the transmission that make it grumble, but I do agree it's not very pleasant. I find mine doesn't really like much load as it changes into 6th in D at around 42mph, pulling a steady speed up a hill for example, but it's an easy thing to ride round. I do agree that Honda were a bit excessive with their calibration, and I would have given it another hundred or 2 rpm before the shift, but that's what we have.

[Tex 36,817]

A complete pipe dream, but I'd love to try an Integra (or any NC, come to that) with a 360 degree crank. Yes, I know the 'advantages' of the current arrangement (principally balancing and silencing) but the 'traditional' 360 deg twin has a charm (and sound) all of it's own.

[embee 7,288]

Depends what you're smoking in that pipe, Tex.

[Tex 36,817]

 

[reedx 48]

I only ever use 'D' when I want to force it to use 6th gear if I'm cruising at 50-55mph.

 

Colin 

[Guest David Wolfy]

Well, I've been running on 'D' for a while now and just feathering the throttle to see how it goes. It does feel like the engine is chugging a bit and struggling, but I understand now that it isn't. For the last few days I've kept in 'S' and things feel a bit better although I'm not sure how the MGP will get on. It does feel like I want the gears to change up a bit earlier than they do on 'S', though.

 

I wonder if it's possible to hook the bike up to a diagnostic machine and then adjust the gear changes in the EMS? Probably not, but I'd like to keep 'D' on the go, but just change up a that bit later.

 

Still haven't found a solution to the slippy seat though!

 

Minor problems with a great bike, however.

[Mike5100 2,061]

37 minutes ago, David Wolfy said:

Well, I've been running on 'D' for a while now and just feathering the throttle to see how it goes. It does feel like the engine is chugging a bit and struggling, but I understand now that it isn't. For the last few days I've kept in 'S' and things feel a bit better although I'm not sure how the MGP will get on. It does feel like I want the gears to change up a bit earlier than they do on 'S', though.

 

I wonder if it's possible to hook the bike up to a diagnostic machine and then adjust the gear changes in the EMS? Probably not, but I'd like to keep 'D' on the go, but just change up a that bit later.

 

Still haven't found a solution to the slippy seat though!

 

Minor problems with a great bike, however.

You ought to be able to pick up a 750X rider seat second hand.  They changed the covering material probably because it was too slippy on the 700X.  I think they are the same seat pan.

Mike

[trisaki 2,029]

1 hour ago, David Wolfy said:

Well, I've been running on 'D' for a while now and just feathering the throttle to see how it goes. It does feel like the engine is chugging a bit and struggling, but I understand now that it isn't. For the last few days I've kept in 'S' and things feel a bit better although I'm not sure how the MGP will get on. It does feel like I want the gears to change up a bit earlier than they do on 'S', though.

 

I wonder if it's possible to hook the bike up to a diagnostic machine and then adjust the gear changes in the EMS? Probably not, but I'd like to keep 'D' on the go, but just change up a that bit later.

 

Still haven't found a solution to the slippy seat though!

 

Minor problems with a great bike, however.

Try doing  an ecu reset done on a few of my customers  bikes seems to make a difference  also try the dct reset 

[embee 7,288]

5 hours ago, David Wolfy said:

..... For the last few days I've kept in 'S' and things feel a bit better although I'm not sure how the MGP will get on. It does feel like I want the gears to change up a bit earlier than they do on 'S', though.

 

Ride in S and just flick the + switch when you want it to upshift. As long as it's above an acceptable speed for the gear it will upshift on demand. I use this method a lot of the time.

Edited December 16, 2016 by embee

[Guest Hati]

5 hours ago, David Wolfy said:

I wonder if it's possible to hook the bike up to a diagnostic machine and then adjust the gear changes in the EMS? Probably not, but I'd like to keep 'D' on the go, but just change up a that bit later.

 

Not possible. The 2016 update has three S modes and the D on the top of the manual. You can either ride in in full manual or adjust your style a little to accommodate the fixed changes, helped by - as Murray pointed out - manual override on the occasion.

[Mike5100 2,061]

47 minutes ago, Hati said:

 

Not possible. The 2016 update has three S modes and the D on the top of the manual. You can either ride in in full manual or adjust your style a little to accommodate the fixed changes, helped by - as Murray pointed out - manual override on the occasion.

.... or try riding it hard in D-mode.  there's a theory that there is a learning algorithm associated with D-mode so that the ECU/DCT controller adjusts the gearchange position dependent on your riding style.  

Mike

[Guest David Wolfy]

On 12/16/2016 at 17:54, trisaki said:

Try doing  an ecu reset done on a few of my customers  bikes seems to make a difference  also try the dct reset 

 

Is this something only a garage can do? I assume so.

D

[Mike5100 2,061]

1 hour ago, David Wolfy said:

 

Is this something only a garage can do? I assume so.

D

nah - the instructions are on here somewhere David.  Also the DCT reset - careful you don't use the DCT reset for the 2016 model though as there is one difference (I think you do the 2016 one with the throttle wide open and the pre2016 with it closed.

Mike

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

13 hours ago, David Wolfy said:

 

Is this something only a garage can do? I assume so.

D

 Have a look at this posting David, it explains how to reset the ECU.

[Guest David Wolfy]

Thanks Mike and Derek, I'll have a look and see what to do.

D

[axis 26]

S mode for me 95% of the time. Down-shifts are spot on imo. I'd use D mode (slightly) more if it weren't for the fact that on minimal throttle it shifts up to 6th at 39mph! I know what you mean about the 'labouring' feeling and I'm not a fan.....

[Guest David Wolfy]

OK, did the EMU reset following the instructions and it may have made a slight difference, but hard to tell. I have just decided to stick on 'S' as that feels more comfortable most of the time. Now to see if fuel economy changes much.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

[Can do biker 32]

Well after 4000 miles of commuting I've tried all the modes on my 2016 X and I think they all have their merits.  I've got used to the DCT and I love it.  My commute now involves me taking a pillion, the smooth gear changes of the DCT really come into their own.  I've stopped the phantom gear changes with my foot and only reach for the clutch twice a week :-)

 

I still think it feels laboured in D mode, but notching it up/down with my thumb is a breeze.  The S modes add a bit of excitement to the same old road on my commute and keep it interesting.  If I get particularly bored or I'm in very slow moving traffic then I put it in manual and it's a whole different experience again.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

On 20/12/2016 at 15:08, axis said:

S mode for me 95% of the time. Down-shifts are spot on imo. I'd use D mode (slightly) more if it weren't for the fact that on minimal throttle it shifts up to 6th at 39mph! I know what you mean about the 'labouring' feeling and I'm not a fan.....

 

OK.  Not being a fan is one thing, thinking it is bad for the engine is another (someone earlier in this thread reckons they can hear the big and little ends rattling, which of course they can't).

 

"Labouring" is a human concept, and there is a big risk of letting one's supposed mechanical sympathy lead you to conclusions that simply have no basis in reality.  (This reminds me of people who claim their engine is "happiest" at 60mph, or whatever; forgetting that it's just steel, aluminium and oil and incapable of happiness - all it requires is to run within the design parameters set by the manufacturer.)

 

An engine designer knows the operating speed range, torque, power and dynamic loads in the engine and designs it accordingly.  And let's be honest, whilst Honda make the occasional (very rare) mistake, they are arguably the best engine makers in the world.  They know what they are doing.  When they do make a mistake, they put it right.  They've been making the NC for years - if they didn't want it to rev like that they'd have changed it by now.

 

You see, unlike all normal bikes, Honda has complete control over when the gearbox changes to a lower gear (even in manual mode), so there is less chance of "labouring" a DCT than any manual bike you can name.  Honda have designed that engine to operate at those low speeds with those loads.  If they hadn't, it wouldn't.

 

I've got a Fairbanks Morse engine in my garage that generates maximum torque at 480rpm.  Am I labouring that, then, when I run it at only a bit more than one third of the Honda's idle speed?  Of course not - it was obviously designed to operate at that speed.  Well, same with the NC engine.

 

Going back to the "subjective" side of the argument, I've grown to really love the sound and feel of the NC engine as it chugga-luggs its way out of gentle bends.  It's most relaxing.