Questionnaire about the battery life on NC

[ste7ios 469]

Hello! Many of us have a feeling that the batteries on the NC doesn't live as they should (approx. 5 years).


So, I'm trying to clarify that with a short questionnaire to collect some data about the battery life and some other factors that may affect battery life.


You may submit one response per battery. No editing is possible.




https://goo.gl/forms/tefM4Q7jN2CGwvik1




If something is missing just let me know.


Thank you!

[CFB 4,602]

Missing Always from charger usage.

Non daily leisure ride option

[ste7ios 469]

Just added!

[Slowboy 20,576]

Mine was registered in September 2012, over 28k, still on the original battery and starting just fine, never use an optimate, but always garaged. Used regularly but not every day. Accessories are heated grips, heated jacket, sat nav, 12v accessory socket. Don't do short trips.

must be doing something right (using it probably)

(That'll jinx it)

Brian

[ste7ios 469]

For those who haven't responded and haven't replaced their batteries yet, a question about OCV just added!

 

[Dunnster 1,650]

Filled in questionnaire, hope it helps. 

[ste7ios 469]

Thank you all for your contribution! I hope in one - two months there will be enough responses to have a clarified picture of the battery life!

[Guest sykospain]

Stelios - in my opinion, after extensive experience of motorbike and car battery average life, you're lucky to get 5 years out of one these days.  After about 3 years a battery can suddenly expire overnight.

[ste7ios 469]

Alan, there is no simple answer to that... It depends on many factors.

 

For example a friend of mine has a Yuasa YT12B-BS for 8 years in his bike.

 

We live in the same area (i.e. similar temperatures) but I had to replace it in just 2 years...  It's totally sulfated and can't hold a charge. Different bike usage & not enough maintenance (occasionally charging only) obviously affected my battery 's life.

 

Usually it was impossible for me to fully charge the battery (short city rides), and I also have higher parasitic drain...

 

On the other side, the mentioned bike is used mostly for travels, and all the other time it has a maintainer connected. Also the BS ensures a fresh battery.

 

So far as I can see from the survey 50% still cranking well after 5 years. We will see why and how...

[Slowboy 20,576]

Stelios, I am a bit suspicious of batteries being constantly connected to a maintainer, I am certain it's unnecessary, and I suspect it does long term damage. I suspect connection for no more than 1/2 a day once a fortnight, if the bikes not been used at all, would be better. Mine still holds a decent charge after 41/2 years after a month of inactivity.

Bear in mind batteries are designed to cope with periods of no charge. Mine has only been connected to a charger/maintainer (Optimate) three or four times over the 41/2 year period, and never left connected once fully charged.

Like many things in this modern world I suspect we are being sold something (charger/maintainer) on the basis that it (the battery) might fail if we don't have it and use it all the time, yet it it quite unnecessary for normal use. I have only used the charger after extended periods of inactivity (three to four weeks) and only then to charge the battery and disconnect it once charged.

Human nature being what it is, if the battery fails early, we believe it can't be due to the charger/maintainer because that's our insurance and we've used it all the time, therefore it must be a duff battery to blame.

They've been selling us snake oil for years now.

Edited January 8, 2017 by slowboy
Spelling

[embee 7,288]

I've moved the original NC battery onto another bike (Deauville), but it's still fine at 4.5yrs and something like 20k miles. It does get regular maintenance charging when not in use. It might "contaminate" your survey results so I'll not put it in.

[ste7ios 469]

Again, it depends... Depends on the charger type and its quality.

 

A gentle float charge always benefits a lead acid battery because that stops completely sulfation (surprise: again it depends! On charging voltage) and eliminates other problems like acid stratification (which is limited in AGM but not 100%)...

 

Of course a defective or bad designed charger may overcharge or not charge completely a battery and will kill it soon or later. (If I remember correctly an old BatteryTender model was one of them).

 

A nice maintainer will keep the battery in float charging stage (3rd and last) without overcharging, and it will compensate charging voltage to temperature (decrease above 25°C, increase bellow 25°C).

 

In stationary applications, batteries are kept always in floating stage and there is no harm. That's how it works!

 

This is not snake oil. It's well known knowledge of a 150 years old battery technology with a plenty of applications!

 

The snake oil is behind 'special' desulfation technologies that promise to revive dead...

 

 

I only wonder about PulseTech's tech with low voltage high freq. pulses, if it's really effective and solves the sulfation problem for good!

 

 

 

[ste7ios 469]

9 minutes ago, embee said:

I've moved the original NC battery onto another bike (Deauville), but it's still fine at 4.5yrs and something like 20k miles. It does get regular maintenance charging when not in use. It might "contaminate" your survey results so I'll not put it in.

That's possible, because of the different performance of the charging systems (diff. rpm ranges) that may be part of the problem...

 

Hmmm... I really need a voltage/amperage of NCs magneto graph but no luck so far... :-/

[ste7ios 469]

Can you define fine? Any OCV measurement?

[embee 7,288]

Sorry Stelios, I don't have any measurements of "fine", I just judge it by how eagerly it turns the engine when it is cold. Not scientific I know.

 

I started all my vehicles a couple of days ago (once a month, debatable I know but I find it helps with carbs to keep them flushed with fuel). They all turned briskly and started easily. temp around 5C.

 

I use a charger branded by Banner (Austrian battery company). I'm sure it originated somewhere further east, but the voltage ramps seem to be sensible from what I've logged during a charge and it hasn't killed any batteries in the last 10yrs or so that I've had it. Generally I don't do tired batteries, at the first sign of getting old they go to the recycling.

[shiggsy 529]

I tried putting in the OCV voltage of 12.68 but the page wouldn't save. Saved ok when I removed it.

 

My bike got used very little in 2016, due to me not working between April and December.  Think I only hooked it up to the charger once in that time, did a few short trips on it too, but battery voltage still strong at startup. My experience is the same as Slowboys,  I think its down to the Mosfet RR they have thankfully equipped these bikes with.

Edited January 8, 2017 by shiggsy

[ste7ios 469]

Thanks for the feedback! I removed the validation... I'll manually the spreadsheet.

[ste7ios 469]

4 hours ago, ste7ios said:

Thanks for the feedback! I removed the validation... I'll manually the spreadsheet.

Ok... Missing verb!  You know what I mean (add it)

[Guest sykospain]

¿ Didn't I once see advertised somewhere, a product that you poured into a sulfated battery, turned it upside down after a night's soak, poured everything away into something ecologically acceptable for disposal of all the gunge, and the battery came back to life ?

 

Ah, a short Google search and we have Joe Di Maggio showing us how, with the aid of Epsom Salts and Baking Soda...

 

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by sykospain

[MikeBike 5,006]

Stelios, As I understand from your form you only want responses from people whose battery has failed. The NC isnt so old so I suppose you could say all the failures are premature.

If say (for example!) most with a 4 year old bike using of a bettery tender haven't had to replace the battery, but those not doing so have had to you'll miss that info. Is that what you want?

 

[ste7ios 469]

I made this questionnaire because of the high failure rate cases on the NC in just 2-3 years here in Greece.

 

Is it the NC? The low rev engine can be a suspect.

 

So far with a quick look it seems that it confirms what we already know about lead acid:

• Short, city rides kill the battery.
• An always fully charged battery will give us the maximum of its lifetime.
• Hot climates (>25°C) also decreases the lifetime.

Anyway it's too soon to extract any safe conclusions. The sample it's too small yet...

 

Everyone can enter the status of his battery ("5 years and still healthy (OCV > 12.5V)") but in that case I would like to have the OCV i.e. the state of charge. Difficult...

[embee 7,288]

I've wondered about the temperature of the battery, it sits directly above the engine and gets pretty hot in there especially when stopped after a run (heat soak). I haven't measured the temps however.

[ste7ios 469]

Definitely it's getting hot there for a battery. I had a temp meter attached to my LFP and the numbers was relatively high but nothing to worry about, so I never wrote them down...

 

The rule is, any 8°C (10°F) increase above 25°C (77°F) cuts the lifetime to the half...

 

 

[chris 357]

Sorry to be pedantic but whilst 25C and 77F are the same temperature 8C equates to 14.4F at a conversion rate of 1C = 1.8F

[ste7ios 469]

You're right, it's 15°F rounded.