Everything on the bike completely dead

[Guest alexm3388]

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anyone else had the same issue as I'm having at the moment and if yes, I'm curious how did you go about it. I did search the forum hoping to find a post relating to my problem but I just found variations of it or I might have missed it. Anyway, I hope this post helps everyone reading it and hopefully the same doesn't happen to anyone when they're far from home or Honda dealership. It happened to me at my door step, luckily. 

 

I arrived home yesterday afternoon after riding around town the whole day and I mind you, without any problems or indications of failure of any kind. Only fifteen minutes later I had to leave again. Reversed the bike out of the garage, turn the key and nothing. No lights on the instrument panel, no clicks as usual, nothing whatsoever, as if there was no battery in the bike at all. I attended to it only early this morning and I'm still scratching my head. The battery measures 12.6 V so it's not flat. To eliminate the battery altogether, I switched it with the battery from another, working bike and it was the same, still dead. I tried to get to the main 30A fuse but I can't lift the little red cap for the love of money. I know that positioned just before the main fuse is a starter relay but before I force anything out and potentially break it, I thought of asking for an advice first. I'm sure many of you accessed the main fuse and are quite knowledgeable in that respect so I would sincerely appreciate an instruction on how to get to it.

 

This will be fixed eventually but, the number two and a much more serious problem is what does one do in the long run, when you're in the middle of nowhere for instance? The question might be a bit daft but the only solution, obviously, would be to have some basic tools with you and a set of spare fuses. In May last year I rode from Pretoria to Cape Town and back. It was a 3000KM round trip and I have taken half of the garage with me, tools and various accessories I thought might prove useful if the bike brakes. Not a thing broke and the bike was a pure pleasure to ride the entire trip, however, all the tools I had with me  wouldn't have helped a bit since I haven't taken a single fuse with me. So, if this issue is common with the NC range, and I hope I'll find that out from your responses, my suggestion is ride with a few pieces of tools and a handful of fuses. On the other hand, maybe my problem is not related to the main fuse or any fuse at all, but, I'll figure it out only when I lay my hands on it. If anyone could help me with an advice on how to access the main fuse, I would be very grateful. Thank you all and be safe.

 

Alex       

[djsb 493]

Does it have an alarm on it? Are the battery connections secure? Have you recently fitted any electrical accessories that may have disturbed a connection somewhere?

[Guest bonekicker]

Alex someone will be with you soon--I cant help with this issue--sorry---it's Sunday teatime and a lot of members are still out on bikes--good luck on getting it sorted.

[Guest alexm3388]

Hi Michael, very good to hear from you again, thanks a lot.

 

Djsb, thanks for your reply. Apart from HISS, there's no alarm fitted to it nor anything else that would disturb any of the connections. No lose connections and by the way, another battery was fitted, too, but no luck.    

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

 Alex,

         if everything  is dead it does sound like the main fuse.

 Here's a screenshot of the relevant page from the 700X manual:

 

 

 

 Edit: It looks as though you grasp the starter magnetic switch and pull it backwards to get access to the main fuse, it should slide off two prongs as you pull it.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Derek_Mac

[Guest alexm3388]

Thanks Derek,

 

I've taken note, however, I tried to wiggle that entire contraption earlier today and didn't come right. I'll follow your advice and see how it pans out. Thanks again.

[Tex 36,817]

I would start with the main fuse, but you could also check where the earth (neg -) cable bolts to the chassis (or engine as the case may be). Another way of testing that earth is to use jump leads from a, known good, battery with the red (pos +) lead connected to your motorcycle battery and the black (neg -) lead connected to the engine.

[Guest alexm3388]

Hi Tex, thank you for your reply. I did start with the main fuse and I just managed to take it out looking at Dereks's picture and like he pointed out, the starter relay and the main fuse housing just slide out. You in fact pull both towards the back of the bike and they slide out easily. Now, looking at the fuse and its connector, I know less than when I started this repair. Both are burned and I'm posting three photos so you guys could take a look. You might possibly know what went wrong. It doesn't look good, even if I replace the fuse, without knowing what caused this problem I can't really put a new one.

[Grumpy old man 4,682]

Is this the same starter relay that was replaced on a recall? Or should have been.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Grumpy old man

[Mikdent 4,070]

16 minutes ago, alexm3388 said:

 

 

 

Holy moly! 

 

Now I'm no electrician but that doesn't look right to me. 

 

Im interested in what caused that, good luck Alex, I'm sure someone of with techie knowledge will be able to help you out . 

[ted 5,744]

Smear a bit of copaslip on the blades of the new fuse.

[Guest alexm3388]

With regards to the starter relay recall, I did read about it some time ago on one of the UK sites but there was no such thing here by us. Or if there was, nobody bothered to let me know. Lloyd, now that you mentioned it, I'll get in touch with the dealership tomorrow morning and find out, thank you for the suggestion.

 

Jerry, I will post here what caused it and whether it was the starter relay, thanks mate.

[Guest alexm3388]

Hi Ted, what is the function of copaslip? Are you actually talking about copper grease? Our brands differ from yours so copaslip could be copper grease, I suppose. Thanks a lot.

[Spindizzy 7,109]

Might be relevant

 

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM483041/RCRIT-15V439-3871.pdf

 

Not impossible for the heat to cook the fuse instead of the relay. Looking at that fuse you may need a new fuseholder assembly. Putting a good fuse back in to a poor contactor could cause that again, even when you find the true cause.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Spindizzy

[Guest alexm3388]

Thanks Spindizzy, it appears as if the starter relay is the  culprit, though, in the list I didn't see NC750X. There is NC700X 2014 and 2015 and my NC is 750 X, 2014. Well, I suppose it's the same difference, I'll find out within the next couple of days. Thanks for the PDF, an eye opener.

[Grumpy old man 4,682]

That was the American list, I don't think they have the 750. I have the 750x on a 2015 and mine was recalled, I am in the UK 

[Tex 36,817]

It does look very much like you have one of the 'faulty' starter switches, in which case I would expect it to be replaced under warranty (even though your warranty has actually expired). Worst case scenario is that the damn things can actually cause a fire, so you're pretty fortunate really. Good luck.

[Guest alexm3388]

Hi Tex, I could get over the fire issue but what I can't get over is the bike stalling while riding. It's a DCT, no clutch lever you could squeeze within a second. With a DCT, it would be like suddenly hitting a brake I suppose, a car or a truck behind you would just wipe you out.

 

Now, that's actually a very good reason to find out if there is some kind of a safety feature on a DCT that would prevent the rear wheel from locking in case the engine dies while you're riding at 80mph. Thank you Tex.

 

Does anyone know perhaps?

Edited February 5, 2017 by alexm3388
Additional info

[DaveM59 1,605]

A corroded or even a green verdigris crusted connector can cause the heating of the terminal and the fuse blade due to high resistance. The starter relay is doing nothing once you release the starter button except passing power out from the battery lead to the smaller loom connectors via a hard wired connection and allowing regulator input back to the battery. Any non insulating grease such as coppaslip or a dielectric silicone smeared into the whole area where the connector and fuse fits should prevent this happening.

The damage to the red connector looks more like it's external from the fuse than from the terminal inside the plug so replacing the fuse greased up, should fix the problem. What I would also check before assuming it's fixed is the voltage from the regulator as this passes via the relay and fuse to the battery. If you have excessive voltage or amperage the heat will be higher but there is no short circuit as such so the fuse won't blow, but just get very hot. It's possible that bad connections to the battery terminals causes a high resistance to the input from the regulator so then the 'thinnest' bit of the circuit gets hot, so make sure the battery leads are tight but also that the crimped cable end fittings are tightly crimped and haven't worked loose.

Edited February 5, 2017 by DaveM59

[DaveM59 1,605]

The DCT releases the clutch on loss of engine oil pressure so if the motor stops the clutch disengages and gears drop to neutral. The ECU will also select neutral if certain engine function readouts drop off. Try it with the kill switch as if it did behave in that way as you describe it could be dangerous and Honda wouldn't do that, would they, seriously now?

[Guest alexm3388]

7 minutes ago, DaveM59 said:

The starter relay is doing nothing once you release the starter button

 

Hi Dave, thank you for your advice. However, the reason for the recall of the starter switches was explained by Honda a bit differently. Here is the excerpt from the document, take a look and see what you think about it. It's worrisome."

 

Honda Motor Co., Ltd is conducting a Safety
Recall of motorcycles and scooters listed in
the AFFECTED UNITS section of this bulletin.
Honda has determined that a defect within
certain starter relay switch assemblies can
cause an increase in resistance across the
main fuse, potentially interrupting battery
voltage to the electrical system which can
cause the engine to A) not start or stall
while riding. In an extreme case, the
increased resistance at the main fuse can
cause the starter relay switch to catch on fire.

[Guest alexm3388]

DaveM59, your explanation about the DCT stalling while riding makes me feel better. Would Honda release something as dangerous as that into production? I have no idea, I'm not an engineer, I just asked the question. Thanks a lot for your answer.

[DaveM59 1,605]

There must then be a 'thin' spot in the hard wired part within the top of the relay then which will cause a high resistance. The relay is quite a common one and the one on my Integra is identical to the one on my X9 500 so if you cannot get a warranty/recall replacement, you can probably pick one up for very little money and, as they have never been recalled on for example the X9, a relay from one of them clearly won't have the fault. It must just have been a batch of dud ones possibly only supplied to Honda.

[Guest alexm3388]

I've been thinking about getting a new switch from the moment the issue was mentioned. I just have to compare the serial number on my switch to those that are supposedly safe to install. Now, to find the serial number of the "safe" ones, that's a different story altogether. Will get on it tomorrow morning. Thanks Dave.