Advice on issues with brand new second hand purchase (in Australia)

[Guest Oddlight]

Hi all,

 

I've just picked up my second NC700SA, this time in my new home of Brisbane, Australia.  My UK one was perfect (I absolutely loved that bike!), but this one needs a bit of attention - nothing serious I think, but I'd like to put it back to the state it was in when new.

 

Couple of things I'd like to pick your collective brains on:

 

* Gear change can be difficult into 1st and 2nd, and hard to find neutral (2nd to neutral sometimes works) e.g. have to push down very hard to get into 1st, and firmly up into 2nd.  Other times absolutely fine bit slightly clunky / noisy.  Doesn't seem to be related to engine heat.  Any ideas on what to look for to diagnose further or fix? 

 

* Slight 'surging' (like being on a boat - can't think of better way to describe!) when applying constant clutch and throttle (e.g. when filtering).  Again, any ideas on what could be causing?  Spark plug replacement time?

 

* No service book.  I'd like to replace, but dealer doesn't seem to be inclined to help.  Does anybody have experience replacing these?  Do I have to do this through a dealer?  Any Australian contact?

 

* No (Australian) owners guide.  No biggie for me (and available online) but I'd like to replace if price is right.  Does anybody know where I can get one?

 

I've been told it's just been serviced.  To be fair, oil seems clean and front pads are new.  I could just drop by a dealer and get every one the service items replaced, but this is going to cost a lot and tbh, I don't have this kind of cash just now having just got here.  I intend to do an oil + filter change over Easter though. 

 

What else would be a prime candidate for replacement given the above issues?  E.g. best bang for buck and I can do the work on my drive with a basic toolkit?

 

A bit of background.  It's a 2012 NC700SA, Australian model (but seems to be same as UK) on 35k km, service history unknown, and looks like its been ridden hard at some point in its life (pins on pegs are ground flat along with chunks out of rubber).  It's lived by the sea for most of its life, and has some signs of corrosion - but nothing too serious as far as I can see.  Bar grips where replaced by previous owner with metal ones (no really!) then back to rubber for me.  Replacement chain.  Bar ends and weights now missing hence need replacement.  Evidence of camera mount.  Otherwise reasonably clean cosmetically.  I've put 5 tanks of Shell v-power through so far with no real change.

 

Thanks!

[DaveM59 1,605]

At that mileage (21,000 miles) a pair of new plugs might not go amiss and also inspect the plug leads and caps for any signs of arcing. Check them in the dark for any sign of glowing or flashing to earth. Do an oil and filter change and also drain, flush and refill the coolant with a good quality 50% mix of red 5 year antifreeze. Also replace the air filter, you can't blow them clean.

Check and adjust and grease any exposed pivots on the clutch cable and make sure it has the correct free movement and therefore the full action and see if that helps the gear selection. Also check the position of the gear shift lever on the splines in case someone has turned it a few splines for their comfort and it's fouling on some other structure, or is bent - a wild theoretical guess as I have a DCC so no idea what the gear selector looks like!

My Integra surges especially when not fully warmed up but even then on light throttle low speeds, and I seem to remember others do the same and the best cure is to change the front exhaust pipe for a cat free design but I have never bothered.

Books are usually available on Eeeebay in the UK even service books although for my other bike I simply keep a schedule on my PC which if I ever part with the bike, I'd print out. A dealer should have on-line any history via it's reg or VIN number of the bike assuming it's been back to a main dealer and not either DIY or been serviced by an independent garage. Whether they would add this info into a new book depends on their level of customer service really.

[Guest Mac750]

10 hours ago, DaveM59 said:

At that mileage (21,000 miles) a pair of new plugs might not go amiss and also inspect the plug leads and caps for any signs of arcing. Check them in the dark for any sign of glowing or flashing to earth. Do an oil and filter change and also drain, flush and refill the coolant with a good quality 50% mix of red 5 year antifreeze. Also replace the air filter, you can't blow them clean.

Check and adjust and grease any exposed pivots on the clutch cable and make sure it has the correct free movement and therefore the full action and see if that helps the gear selection. Also check the position of the gear shift lever on the splines in case someone has turned it a few splines for their comfort and it's fouling on some other structure, or is bent - a wild theoretical guess as I have a DCC so no idea what the gear selector looks like!

My Integra surges especially when not fully warmed up but even then on light throttle low speeds, and I seem to remember others do the same and the best cure is to change the front exhaust pipe for a cat free design but I have never bothered.

Books are usually available on Eeeebay in the UK even service books although for my other bike I simply keep a schedule on my PC which if I ever part with the bike, I'd print out. A dealer should have on-line any history via it's reg or VIN number of the bike assuming it's been back to a main dealer and not either DIY or been serviced by an independent garage. Whether they would add this info into a new book depends on their level of customer service really.

Dave M59, if you ever need a swing arm for a PC 800 I have a really good one from Texas I bought it as a spare but didn't need it. 

[trisaki 2,029]

Take gear lever off and grease don't over tighten Allen bolt - clutch cable free play 3 or 4 mm at handlebar  30 mm or so of slack on the chain at its TIGHTEST  spot   oil level just under max line  and do an ecu reset - that should sort it or fly me out to Australia and I will service  it for you  properly  

[Guest Oddlight]

Thanks for the advice.  Can't fly anybody here but nice try

 

Progress a slow today due to unexpected family commitments, so couldn't test ride after changes.  I get to do that on my commute which hopefully wont be a mistake...

 

Stripped and greased the gear selector ball joints - it didn't feel stiff or gritty, but greasing it wont do any harm.  Back on in the same position so not the splines.  Lots of torque needed to undo bolt.  Clutch free play seems about right.

 

Throttle not sticking - it snaps back.

 

Also changed oil and filter.  Also discovered that I really hadn't shipped an oil filter wrench - no idea why or where it's gone (so its lost now!), but not in tool box.  Good job I checked before draining, and fortunately filter came off by hand with assistance of a bit of old rubber.  New filter has end nut, so wont bother to buy another wrench just yet.

 

On closer inspection chain may be slightly too slack - it almost touches the swing arm when on center stand.  Couple of stiff links (again), which I'll sort tomorrow now.  Not frozen solid, so I think a bit of lube will sort.  Next weekend.

 

Turns out that I also brought the wrong indicator bulbs (one went yesterday).  Didn't realise they where offset pins so had to exchange which take a bit of time.  I'd have thought this would have been made clear in the manual, but it appears not.  My mistake.

 

And, as if by magic - an owners guide turns up on that auction site.  A bit pricey, but now ordered.

 

I've not changed coolant or plugs yet.  New plugs are relatively expensive, so want to check its not the cheaper stuff first.  I'll take them out and check for obvious issues first I think.

 

 

 

[DaveM59 1,605]

New Iridium plugs are only about 7GBP here in the UK so we consider them a cheap option to troubleshoot problems. They should last a greater mileage than yours but if there is evidence that it's been ridden hard they will have worked harder per mile than typical. Breakdown of the insulation on the leads and plug caps is best seen in the dark with the engine idling rather than a visual inspection in daylight, and is caused by yanking at the leads to pull them off and general mistreatment.

The correct OEM equivalent filter should have the nut which is better to tighten as well as remove the filter. There is a bodge to use the incorrect indicator bulbs, and that is to file down most of one of the pins then it engages the holder and stays a tight fit then make a note in the owners book what the correct bulbs are for next time.

Coolant has a drain plug under the engine centre behind the exhaust, don't strip the threads, use a sealant and just nip tight.

[Guest sykospain]

HiFlo brand filter "Racing HF204" is good for these bikes and it has the 17mm nut welded on the end so no need for a filter wrench.

[Guest Oddlight]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Been a bit busy work wise this week, so no progress on other stuff yet.

 

And the news is ...  oil change made a massive difference.  So much so, that I'm wondering if it had been topped up with a little car oil?

 

I put some cheapish semi-syth 10-50 in.  The old filter was a HiFlow 204, and I replaced it with a cheapish SCA one.

 

Chain is a bit slack, so that's next.  Then coolant.  Then hopefully the bar end parts will arrive and I can fit those to improve high speed stability a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trisaki 2,029]

On Sunday, April 02, 2017 at 10:22, DaveM59 said:

New Iridium plugs are only about 7GBP here in the UK so we consider them a cheap option to troubleshoot problems. They should last a greater mileage than yours but if there is evidence that it's been ridden hard they will have worked harder per mile than typical. Breakdown of the insulation on the leads and plug caps is best seen in the dark with the engine idling rather than a visual inspection in daylight, and is caused by yanking at the leads to pull them off and general mistreatment.

The correct OEM equivalent filter should have the nut which is better to tighten as well as remove the filter. There is a bodge to use the incorrect indicator bulbs, and that is to file down most of one of the pins then it engages the holder and stays a tight fit then make a note in the owners book what the correct bulbs are for next time.

Coolant has a drain plug under the engine centre behind the exhaust, don't strip the threads, use a sealant and just nip tight.

Where are you  getting  iridium plugs for 7gpb  £7 ? 

[DaveM59 1,605]

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/ngk-iridium-spark-plug-cr7eix

 

for my X9...assumed they were all a similar price and when I searched for the NC and it came up as £14 I thought it was for two having selected it by vehicle and engine but on second looks it does only say 1 off. Even so they are hardly expensive compared to a tyre, battery or just about any OEM Honda component.

[Slowboy 20,547]

I changed my plugs just before I sold the bike, and frankly need not have bothered, after 28,300 miles they were still in specification and probably would have been good for another 10k. The air filter was choked after that mileage though, and there was a noticeable improvement in performance after that was changed ( dealer didn't do it at the 16k service, said it was ok. (Bit of a beggar to get into and change it though). I used to change the oil twice a year, regardless of miles in October and March, and the filter every 8k or annually.

[Reckless_Rat 89]

On 01/04/2017 at 23:18, trisaki said:

...   oil level just under max line  ...

!

If someone had put too much oil in, that seems to make it difficult to change gear. I've encountered this on previous Hondas. Not sure exactly why - someone had a theory that it was due to too much oil pressure.

Then when you did your oil change you didn't refill it over the upper dipstick mark.

(Just a theory)

[Guest Oddlight]

Interesting about the overfilling - thanks.  I'll double check shortly...

 

It turns out that changing oil hasn't completely fixed - still got issues finding neutral when stopped on a slope / heavy camber, but fine into 1st and 2nd now.  Going to live with this for now.

 

Bar weights now fitted and surprisingly made huge difference.  Steering is much less twitchy now.

 

Chain adjusted.  New gear selector rubber fitted.

 

It seems that a replacement service book is impossible to get - I understand from 2 dealers than Honda will not supply.  Need to look further into this.

 

Surging still present.

 

Next up are:

 

Air filter replace.  Need to order from a cheap place (not dealer).

Plugs out and inspect (and change later if needed)

Brake fluid and coolant change

Pads out, inspect, grease and reassemble

Plug slow rear puncture

and a really good clean - its been rained on too much recently.

 

~A

 

[Guest Oddlight]

Jury seems to be out on the ECU reset procedure, particularly for the NC700 manual.  I'll give it a go just in case.

[bazza 3,629]

jst a thought but is the clutch ok ? Ok level clearance obvious but the actual clutch itself?

[Chip 41]

I would consider checking the valve clearances if you are still having surge issues.

[Slowboy 20,547]

You said it was still surging on constant clutch and throttle when filtering. Do you mean the clutch is slipping (you are holding it on the lever near the biting point) or the clutch is fully engaged and just a constant throttle. If your slipping the clutch like that it may be the clutch plates are overheating and have warped a bit, which might also explain you gear change issues as the clutch could be dragging a bit again due to warped plates.