question for you leccys wizards

[gonzo 2,211]

I want to put a honda 12v external socket (cigarette lighter type) on my handle bars as i had on my tranny (now sold)I i don't want the cost of a honda dealer fitting it . Can i wire it up direct to the battery with an in line fuse.? im assuming that it would only become LIVE when i plug in my satnav ,Am i right ?

[fred_jb 10,268]

2 hours ago, gonzo said:

I want to put a honda 12v external socket (cigarette lighter type) on my handle bars as i had on my tranny (now sold)I i don't want the cost of a honda dealer fitting it . Can i wire it up direct to the battery with an in line fuse.? im assuming that it would only become LIVE when i plug in my satnav ,Am i right ?

If you wire it direct to the battery it will be live all the time.   However it won't take any current from the battery unless there is something plugged into it.  However, be aware that if you leave a 12V to USB adapter plugged into it, this does cause a small current drain continuously, even when there is no USB device being powered or charged by it.

 

Also, if your satnav is powered by plugging it directly into the 12V socket with a matching plug, it is still possible that the plug/lead contains a voltage converter which will take current whenever it is plugged in.  If the other end of the satnav power lead plugs into a USB port on the satnav, then this will definitely be the case.

 

The other consideration is security.  I put my always live 12V socket in the frunk in the place where the low power (1A max) Honda socket usually goes.  This makes it more secure and also avoids it getting wet.  It is not a problem taking a lead out of the frunk with the lid closed as the rubber seal will accomodate a thin cable.  If you fit an always live (direct to battery) socket on the bars, there is always the danger that it could be tampered with while the bike is parked, and if this results in it being shorted out would blow the fuse and possibly damage the socket.

 

Edited April 30, 2017 by fred_jb

[gonzo 2,211]

Thanks for that Fred , obviously when i stop the bike the sat nav and lead will go in the frunk/panners so nothing will be plugged in when i walk away from the bike.. The HONDA 12v plug is waterproof with a rubber plug that fits the female part of the socket !. one more question, what size fuse should i fit. ..?

[fred_jb 10,268]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

Thanks for that Fred , obviously when i stop the bike the sat nav and lead will go in the frunk/panners so nothing will be plugged in when i walk away from the bike.. The HONDA 12v plug is waterproof with a rubber plug that fits the female part of the socket !. one more question, what size fuse should i fit. ..?

If you are only going to power the satnav then 5A should be more than sufficient. However if you might also want to use it for running a tyre air compressor then you will need 10A or possibly 15A.  As it will go direct to the battery you could also use it for charging the battery with an Optimate type device - you would just need the Optimate 12V socket adapter lead.

[gonzo 2,211]

Thank you again my man..!

[embee 7,288]

Bear in mind the fuse is there to protect the wiring, in other words the wiring must be man enough for the load you want to put on it, and then fit a fuse appropriate for the wiring.

As Fred says, a tyre compressor usually has a 10A fuse in the plug, so a 10A fuse in the wiring to the socket works fine (that's what I use). 10A needs wiring of at least 2mm^2 (rated at 17A usually, 1.0mm^2 is rated at 8.75A). See purely as an example https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/66/category/11

You could always wire it direct to the battery via a switch hidden under the seat fro example (fuse should be as close to the battery as possible in the +ve wire).

[fred_jb 10,268]

No problem - and as embee says (beat me to it) try to make sure that the fuse is as close to the battery end of the cable as possible.

[gonzo 2,211]

ok i think can manage it now with my new found knowledge, Didnt know about the fuse needing to be close to the battery though , Funny house electrics i find a doddle  but vehicle wiring has me scratching me head .

[dannybegood 69]

I bought one from Amazon, it has an on/ off switch at the outlet as well as fuse. This negates live leak. 

[Guest Mac750]

I bought a handle bar switch off that auction site and when it arrived it looked very cheap and nasty, so I thought I will test this first . So I got my spare 12v bike battery and rigged up a test lamp a fused feed and an earth, I switched the switch the lamp illuminated and the switch started to melt. What a waste of £3 Inc postage from Hong Kong. 😀

Edited April 30, 2017 by Mac750

[SteveThackery 3,090]

1 hour ago, gonzo said:

ok i think can manage it now with my new found knowledge, Didnt know about the fuse needing to be close to the battery though , Funny house electrics i find a doddle  but vehicle wiring has me scratching me head .

 

The fuse doesn't "need" to be close to the battery, exactly.  It is more accurate to say that only the wiring on the "downstream" side of the fuse is protected by it.  Hence the closer the fuse is to the battery, the shorter is the unprotected length.

 

I have to say, though, that there are longer unprotected lengths of wire already there in many motorcycles, where the fuse box is some distance from the battery.

[TheEnglishman 401]

10 hours ago, SteveThackery said:

 

The fuse doesn't "need" to be close to the battery, exactly.  

 

 

No, it does.  The fuse protects any issues in the wiring or the device.  If the fuse is next to the sat nav and the wiring shorts out you'll melt the wire.  And then you've got a whole world of issues.  

 

This is important.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

37 minutes ago, TheEnglishman said:

 

 

No, it does.  The fuse protects any issues in the wiring or the device.  If the fuse is next to the sat nav and the wiring shorts out you'll melt the wire.  And then you've got a whole world of issues.  

 

This is important.

 

That's what I said.  Anything downstream of the fuse is protected, anything upstream isn't.  I don't think you read past my first sentence.  

 

The fuse itself doesn't know or care where it is in the wiring, so it doesn't "need" to be in any particular place.  Just insert "should be" instead of "needs to be" and we're all happy.

[Callisidrin 447]

Ah the intricacies of the English language, Steve is correct in that the Fuse, for it's own choice, doesn't need to be anywhere, But for the sake of protecting the poor copper wires in your bikes loom, ideally 'You' need to place your fuse close to the battery's positive terminal when wiring an auxiliary circuit directly to the battery terminals.

 

 

[gonzo 2,211]

Thanks to you lot my 12v socket is now fitted in the frunk, piece of piss. i had a brain wave pull out the tool kit and fit the socket in the space , battery behind maintenance panel drilled a hole ,fitted a grommet  sorted,!! Tool kit now lives in the bottom of the frunk or panniers. So thank you one and all . the whole point of this was to save money by not having honda fit it  !. fitted an OXFORD with a 10amp fuse cost £25.

[Jeffprince 4,923]

26 minutes ago, gonzo said:

Thanks to you lot my 12v socket is now fitted in the frunk, piece of piss. i had a brain wave pull out the tool kit and fit the socket in the space , battery behind maintenance panel drilled a hole ,fitted a grommet  sorted,!! Tool kit now lives in the bottom of the frunk or panniers. So thank you one and all . the whole point of this was to save money by not having honda fit it  !. fitted an OXFORD with a 10amp fuse cost £25.

Ive done the same, near as dammit....have an optimate connector wired direct to the battery. Into that, I can connect the optimate itself, or a cig lighter socket or usb socket, which are wired to optimate connectors separately. Just have to plug in whichever I need at the time. The optimate connector is fused. 

The connectors are available at Maplins, but the pre wired ones seemed to have incorrect polarity. 

[fred_jb 10,268]

1 hour ago, Jeffprince said:

Ive done the same, near as dammit....have an optimate connector wired direct to the battery. Into that, I can connect the optimate itself, or a cig lighter socket or usb socket, which are wired to optimate connectors separately. Just have to plug in whichever I need at the time. The optimate connector is fused. 

The connectors are available at Maplins, but the pre wired ones seemed to have incorrect polarity. 

I believe there have been several Optimate connector types, but if you are talking about the the black connectors with one exposed pin and one shielded pin, then you need to make sure that on the live (battery side) wire that the +12v connection is on the shielded pin, so that it cannot short on anything, and the earth connection is on the exposed pin.   The connectors on the accessories you plug in obviously need to be the other way around so they can mate with the live connector.  Depending on their intended usage, this may be the reason why the pre-wired ones are incorrect.

 

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by fred_jb

[Jeffprince 4,923]

5 hours ago, fred_jb said:

I believe there have been several Optimate connector types, but if you are talking about the the black connectors with one exposed pin and one shielded pin, then you need to make sure that on the live (battery side) wire that the +12v connection is on the shielded pin, so that it cannot short on anything, and the earth connection is on the exposed pin.   The connectors on the accessories you plug in obviously need to be the other way around so they can mate with the live connector.  Depending on their intended usage, this may be the reason why the pre-wired ones are incorrect.

 

 

Mine are the older, white connectors. One is squared, the other rounded...both isolated.  I stuck to basics...red to red, black to black. 

[Guest sykospain]

Re Jeff's post:-  I get my various polarised connectors from a firm called Towzatronics in UK.

1)

Semi transclucent 2-pin polarised socket and plug, a bit of a challenge to fit for my benign tremor, needing needle-nosed pliers to bend over the sticking-up wire clamps, the smaller pair to trap the bared wire bit, then the taller pair bent over the insulation to stop the wire pulling out  :-

 

 

Red & Black polarised socket & plug, much much easier - just lob this supplied double-ender in half and you have a connecting pair; solder the wires to the leads you want.  I always stagger the red & black wires to avoid an adjacent short;  not T-short, current short-circuit : -

 

[Guest sykospain]

When I use the semi-transparent polarised connector, number one in my post above, I always add a dab of red nail varnish, looted from Her Indoors' stock, to mark the positive on the accessory-connecting wire, so it matches with the positive on the ( fused ) feed side from the battery.  Fred's advice above is essential.

[Callisidrin 447]

When making your own plugs and sockets, ideally the connectors you use should be polarised so that there is now way you can put them together the wrong way round. Before you connect up your home made loom, check and double check you have put the right pins and sockets in the right receptacles in the plastic housing and in the right positions.

(another trick I used to use on unpolarised multipole connectors was to glue up the hole of an unused socket and remove or cut the pin from the plug that matches the socket, there was no way the connector could be put together the wrong way round as only the removed pin would fit where the socket hole had been glued)

 

Just to re-iterate what Fred mentioned.

The Connector which is on the Live wire (either permanently via the battery or switched by the ignition) of the loom should always be the recessed and shrouded/shielded socket of the connector so that accidental shorting is more difficult to do. Same goes for if you have to use spade ore bullet crimps, never use un-shrouded spade receptacles and always use the shrouded socket on any wire that will be left live if disconnected. 

Exposed pins on a connector shouldn't be live. Just think of it like a 13A plug and socket, the Pins of the Plug are not live until they are plugged into the Live (shrouded) socket. I will however add a caveat to this, occasionally you will find some connectors with the pins live (either deliberately or because someone has been fiddling or wired up incorrectly), this is why you should never take it for granted that a connector is safe even when unplugged.

Always disconnect the battery before working on electrics, if you have to work live then test all connections with a multimeter so you know what is live and if you do disconnect something and leave a floating connector flapping about (or tied back), wrap it up in insulating tape just to be safe.

For long term disconnection this also helps to slow down oxidation on metal in the connector so that if you do want to use it again it's going to be clean.

[Bigglesaircraft 293]

On 04/05/2017 at 10:02, gonzo said:

Thanks to you lot my 12v socket is now fitted in the frunk, piece of piss. i had a brain wave pull out the tool kit and fit the socket in the space , battery behind maintenance panel drilled a hole ,fitted a grommet  sorted,!! Tool kit now lives in the bottom of the frunk or panniers. So thank you one and all . the whole point of this was to save money by not having honda fit it  !. fitted an OXFORD with a 10amp fuse cost £25.

To save space I put the tool kit under the pillion right at the back under the tail.