Cataclean for Catalyst?

[makman 975]

Well, I use Cataclean for the car before an MOT and it helps it to pass the emissions test.  Also runs better after using the stuff.  

 

I know the bike does not have an emissions test, but would using a catalyst cleaner be beneficial at all and has anyone had the need to do this?

[Tex 36,817]

I don’t clean my Triumph cat - it’s on a shelf at the back of the garage.  

 

More seriously, bikers tend to use higher revs (even NC riders) than cars which probably helps with keeping the cat clean. But that’s only a ‘feeling’ I have bugger all information to back it up.

[skorpion 945]

1 hour ago, makman said:

Well, I use Cataclean for the car before an MOT and it helps it to pass the emissions test.  Also runs better after using the stuff.  

 

I know the bike does not have an emissions test, but would using a catalyst cleaner be beneficial at all and has anyone had the need to do this?

 

Personally no idea, use Italian tuneup myself.

[makman 975]

I'm using Sports mode most days as it still gets stuck in D mode and then I get a single line on the dash and no gear changes. Tends not to do this in Sports mode.  New battery, fuse is clean and fine, the connections are clean.  

 

I do get it hot and use the revs, but don't do much motorway work.  

[embee 7,288]

My initial reaction is snake -oil. A modern engine in decent condition won't plug the cat monolith. The blurb also says it contains acetone, which you don't want anywhere near any of the rubbers commonly used in fuel systems, NBR and "Viton" etc. Up to you.

 

As for the DCT issues, according to the workshop manual it displays the dash when the controller detects a fault, and will prevent shifts if it deems necessary. It should store any fault codes, you need to do the check to read the blink codes (description of how in the workshop manual, plus the relevant code areas. Section 12 of the 700 manual).

[makman 975]

21-1 (21)
Shift spindle angle sensor low voltage
• Loose or poor contact of the shift spindle angle
sensor connector
• Shift spindle angle sensor or its circuit malfunction
• Faulty PCM
• Gearshift function does
not work (while driving)
• Only shifted into 1st
gear
12-23

 

12-63
21-2 (21)
Shift spindle angle sensor high voltage
• Shift spindle angle sensor or its circuit malfunction
• Faulty PCM
• Gearshift function does
not work (while driving)
• Only shifted into 1st
gear
12-24

 

22-1 (22)
Shift spindle operation malfunction (after operating
gearshift mechanism)
• Gearshift mechanism malfunction
• Shift spindle angle sensor malfunction
• Gearshift function does
not work (while driving)
• Only shifted into 1st
gear
12-25
12-64

 

23-1 (23)
Shift spindle operation malfunction (while operating
gearshift mechanism)
• Gearshift mechanism malfunction
• Shift spindle angle sensor malfunction
• Gearshift function does
not work (while driving)
• Only shifted into 1st
gear

[Foxy 4,356]

Is that a poem? Or perhaps the latest track from Catfish and the Bottlemen 

[kayz1 2,928]

Do you think it may need a new

***Shift spindle angle sensor ****

[makman 975]

Shift spindle angle sensors seems to be the answer.... well to my uneducated reading.

 

Rather poetic those ramblings above, a bit more prosaic than the fellow on 8 out of 10 Cats the other night.  

Edited January 26, 2018 by makman

[embee 7,288]

IIRC the shift spindle sensor is actually on the right hand (as you sit on the bike) end of the spindle. The shift motor and gears are on the left down low at the bottom of the engine, then a spindle transfers the rotation across to the right side. The sensor is on the outside of the clutch cover, just below the round clutch part. My guess would be bad connection (as always). The sensor has an attached lead which is about 15" long and the connector is just above the main part of the engine/gearbox. I'd be looking at that connector first. It may be trickier to get to than might be imagined though.

I'm not sure what that sensor actually is, I'd suspect it's a two way switch to sense when the spindle turns clockwise and anticlockwise from the central position, in which case it would be fairly easy to check whether it's making contact internally if you take it out to test it. It is held in place with one bolt and simply pulls out, an O-ring seals it.

[makman 975]

When I eventually get a weekend free, I will have a good look at this and ACF50 the whole area thoroughly.  Also have ACF50 grease, so may use a small smear of that as well to seal things nicely and preserve the connection if that is the issue.  Looks like I'll be putting a towel down and crawling under the bike in the not too distant future!

[makman 975]

I may have to do this a lot sooner than expected.  Had a lot of issues with the DCT sticking in gear. Rocking back and forwards sorted it once, got stuck in 4th gear coming home and also stuck in neutral at traffic lights 3 times last night and once this morning.  Not safe!

[embee 7,288]

It's possible it's the gear shift motor/gear train not moving. One thing telling the ECU whether it has moved is the shift switch as discussed, and a fault flagged for that could either be the switch itself not making correct contact for some reason, or the motor isn't actually moving the shifter when it is instructed to do so. There is another angle sensor mounted in the motor reduction case on the left side, I'm not 100% sure whether this picks up on the gearbox selector drum or the input end of the selector crossover spindle, I have a feeling it's on the selector drum itself. You can see the gasket has 2 holes where it fits (where the number 2 is on the diagram), the upper hole is where the sensor engages with the shaft driving it, the lower of the 2 holes is a drain for any oil to prevent pressure build up I think, which all points towards it being on the selector drum shaft. Either way it's another thing to check the connector on.

Since you fault codes relate to the shift spindle angle sensor it's more likely to be either the motor not moving or the spindle switch and/or its connector I'd guess.

The shift motor has a socket directly on it, so easy to remove the plug and check for corrosion, the angle sensor (7) just above it has a short flying lead which you'll need to follow to find the connector. Those would be my starting points before getting invasive.

https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/pieces-honda-detail-71541-71541-NC750XDE-2014-E_19-NC+750+X+ABS+DCT.html

 

The reduction case is lubed with grease, there are small ball bearings on each shaft. The annoying issue with this case is that for some reason it uses a paper gasket rather than silicone sealant, and I found it impossible to save the gasket and they are stupid money to buy so I made one from gasket material, which is a bit fiddly.

Edited January 30, 2018 by embee

[makman 975]

Thanks. I had a poke around this area about an hour ago and reseated the sensor connector.  It felt "ok", but I did not have contact cleaner, although it did appear to be clean.

 

I'll have to monitor this and do a strip/clean at the weekend.  Annoying on the paper gasket side of things. I will have a mooch for a cereal box and see if I can cut out a neat template using that.  It is about all I have to hand for such duties.

[embee 7,288]

If for any reason you go in there, card will be too thick, it's more a stiff paper a few thou thick. I'd leave that alone unless you actually need to open the case.

Have you found the connector for the spindle switch on the other side, the right hand side? That would be my starting point.

[makman 975]

Not quite sure to be honest.  I've reseated 3 connectors next to where the DCT Oil filter sits, and one in the engine void above that.  But not seeing anything else under the bike in that area.

[embee 7,288]

The 3 right next to the DCT oil filter are the oil pressure sensors for the DCT shift solenoids (feed, clutch1, clutch2). The selector spindle switch is just below the clutch cover round part, this pic shows it removed with a paper towel in the hole. The flying lead for it goes up past the filler tube and the connector is up above the gearbox itself. It'd be an idea to take this switch out and check its function. It has 3 wires, I suspect there are 2 switches in it, one for up, one for down.

[makman 975]

Have not been able to check that yet, will do so tomorrow. Cut a couple of times yesterday, nothing this morning.

[makman 975]

Two days of no issues as of yet.  Not had time to clean connectors, but did spray areas with carb clean to shift dirt etc...  here is hoping.