Misfuel

[Robi55 94]

HI All

I'm opening myself up here to a torrent of p*** taking (which I'd be grateful not to receive!) but have to admit the error of my ways in order to ask the question at the end. So...two weeks ago I'm commuting to work on my new 2020 750X (less than a month old, 200 miles) and following a bad morning at home, stress at work and a headful of negative stuff, I pull into a fuel station and like a zombie put 8 or 9 litres of the black oily stuff into the tank. The bike starts first time, I pull away and everything seems fine, before it misfires going up over a bridge and then again coming down, so I immediately pull off the road and park up in a safe place having realised what a complete moron I had suddenly become. Inexcusable I know, but the first time in 30 years of riding. 

 

I had probably ridden 400 yards and stopped the engine before it stopped itself. The AA attended within the hour and the bike was taken to the nearest Honda dealer (though hardly local). The next day a technician calls me to say no major problems, the fuel has been drained but they do have to replace one small part (but I can't recall the description). Time passes, I finally get the nod that the bike is ready for collection.... and am told the bill is pushing £400. Sorry, what?! I was expecting a fair bill (do they wack on a surcharge for idiocy?) but this has taken me aback. So, does anyone know what the national labour charge is for Honda dealers? And which parts would need replacing (on a brand new bike) for this work? The bike was not sold to me by this dealer as they had sold out of 2020 models so I purchased online from another part of the country. That probably didn't go in my favour either. 

[MikeBike 5,005]

I've had the mind elsewhere and scraped the car on the garage and also put in a fivers worth of petrol in my diesel car. Glad it wasn't more serious.

Think my dealer's rate is (was?) about £72/hour inc VAT but I'm in Wales and I'm sure it'll be more elsewhere.

NOt sure which parts it would be - fuel filter I suppose at least.

 

THere is a video of an NC 'running' on diesel/petrol mix, with associated useful comments

 

[wjvh 999]

£400 is v steep. I put petrol in a diesel car once, perhaps 10 yrs ago, (by all accounts, this is worse than diesel into a petrol engine). It cost me £140 to have the tank drained. I would guess the part is a fuel filter or a fuel line or both. I would ask for an itemised bill from the garage.

[listener 11,191]

1 hour ago, Robi55 said:

So, does anyone know what the national labour charge is for Honda dealers?

 

At my last service (March this year) labour was charged at £65ph.

 

 

1 hour ago, Robi55 said:

And which parts would need replacing (on a brand new bike) for this work?

 

Maybe filter, pump, injectors?

Plus, there's a lot of plastic to remove to get at those gubbins.

 

Or maybe they're made of adamantium, unobtainium and feminum? 

[Ciaran 6,880]

Have you got an itemised bill?

[Slowboy 20,506]

Did this very thing on a 700 transalp. All that was required was draining of the fuel. No fuel filters (they self clean petrol is a solvent) no injectors (ditto). No spark plugs (ditto).

 

I know this because I helped out the French mechanic who stayed after hours to help me out. He also phoned all his mates so they could come down the workshop and take the p**s out of the “English diesel-biker. I made sure he wasn’t short of beer money for a while. 
 

£400 sounds like a different sort of p**s take.

[Andy m 23,547]

There isn't a national rate I'm aware of, it would make Honda responsible for what the dealers do and they don't like that. Its going to be £60 to £100 an hour depending how close to the M25 you are. 

 

As @Ciaran1602 says, lets see the itemised bill. 3-4 hours to wade in as far as say the fuel pump o-rings and retreat again is not crazy. It may be so cautious as to amount to taking the ****, but your bad day will get worse if you did ask them to make the bike like new. 

 

I have done it. Directly north of the Forth Bridge is a petrol station where the handle on the diesel pump is green. They have a length of hose under the counter so everyone not local enough to know this can get the Diesel into a can they'll provide 😡. 

 

If anyone else does this, don't stress. No need to change anything, just syphon out every last drop of Diesel, fill with unleaded and ride. You now have a little work to do. You need to top off the tank every half tank for the next ten tanks and ride twenty miles after each filling. Stir the tank contents with the blast from the petrol station pump and burn some while its stirred up. You haven't done the fuel pump or hoses any favours but mostly they'll fail at 75000 miles instead of 100000, so probably SEP. 

 

Andy

[Black Marauder 100]

The best part of 60 years ago I was quite often running an Ariel arrow on paraffin . instead of the usual "blue smoke screen" it was a "white smoke screen" older riders should remember no anti pollution rules applied in the days of Castrol R oil ,    oh that unmistakeable smell !!

[Andy m 23,547]

4 minutes ago, Black Marauder said:

The best part of 60 years ago I was quite often running an Ariel arrow on paraffin . instead of the usual "blue smoke screen" it was a "white smoke screen" older riders should remember no anti pollution rules applied in the days of Castrol R oil ,    oh that unmistakeable smell !!

When the top-end rebuild/de-coke interval is 3000 miles anyway who cares about a bit extra soot or toasty valves 😁😁😁😁

 

How did you stop it when you arrived somewhere? Decompresser lever? Careful timing on the fuel tap? 

 

Andy

Edited June 14, 2021 by Andy m

[Tex 36,817]

Miss fuel a Mercedes and a Merc main dealer will want to replace a shed load of parts including (drum roll) the ECU! The bill a cool £3K plus! And that was 12 years ago before I retired.

 

But they’re always robbing sods.

 

£400 does sound on the steep side but it’s a bit late now, eh? The time to be questioning costs is before the repair rather than after it. 
 

2 hours ago, Andy m said:

When the top-end rebuild/de-coke interval is 3000 miles anyway who cares about a bit extra soot or toasty valves 😁😁😁😁

 

How did you stop it when you arrived somewhere? Decompresser lever? Careful timing on the fuel tap? 

 

Andy

 

The Arrow was a 250cc two stroke twin, young Andy. The sports version of the Leader (brilliant device with lots of features you would kill for today, like mudguards and chain enclosure). Last design of the excellent Valentine Page. 

[Andy m 23,547]

5 minutes ago, Tex said:

.. Arrow was a 250cc two stroke twin, young Andy. The sports version of the Leader (brilliant device with lots of features you would kill for today, like mudguards and chain enclosure). Last design of the excellent Valentine Page. 

Ah I see, good plan, burn the oil before it has chance to leak out 😁

 

Andy

[Rev Ken 6,340]

Diesel in a petrol engine is less of a problem than vice-versa. Diesel is a lubricant which does very little damage whereas petrol is a solvent.  Diesel engines rely on its lubrication properties, hence, as petrol has no lubricant properties, it can cause a lot more damage and prove very expensive! I'm a little puzzled suggesting petrol injectors and hoses would suffer from diesel. Petrol requires a lot higher compression to detonate, hence the misfiring.

 

I added some petrol to my diesel car, but realised what I had done before putting in too much. I was told by the VW dealer that it should be OK so long as I kept on topping  with diesel. I found that at first it ran perfectly, but as the car movement mixed the petrol with the diesel it would start to misfire. Fortunately leaving it overnight the petrol would rise to the top and slowly over a few days it dispersed and all was back to normal.

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Rev Ken

[Empty_Ten 451]

Wow, that is a hefty bill…. Jesus I’d be asking for itemisation and an explanation of what the actual work carried out was.

 

My main dealer charges £82.50 or £85 an hour labour (it’s one or the other) and they’re very happy to round up labour.

 

I went there for the 8k service and arrived just before 9.15.  Bike was wheeled out just after 11.30 (waiting area closed and I was sat outside so saw what time it was taken in/out).  Got the bill and thought it was expensive, but stiff upper lift and all that, paid it and went on my way.  Saw the itemised bill and they had charged me 3hrs labour.  Even with the introduction and then the tech coming back out explaining what had been done, and then speaking to the staff and paying for services - it was not 3hrs.  I left at 11.45.

 

needless to say, that’s the last time I intend to go to them.  I had planned to do main dealer servicing due to longer service intervals on the NC - but after that - i will stick with trusted independents with factory trained techs.

 

 

[skorpion 945]

6 hours ago, Robi55 said:

HI All

I'm opening myself up here to a torrent of p*** taking (which I'd be grateful not to receive!) but have to admit the error of my ways in order to ask the question at the end. So...two weeks ago I'm commuting to work on my new 2020 750X (less than a month old, 200 miles) and following a bad morning at home, stress at work and a headful of negative stuff, I pull into a fuel station and like a zombie put 8 or 9 litres of the black oily stuff into the tank. The bike starts first time, I pull away and everything seems fine, before it misfires going up over a bridge and then again coming down, so I immediately pull off the road and park up in a safe place having realised what a complete moron I had suddenly become. Inexcusable I know, but the first time in 30 years of riding. 

 

I had probably ridden 400 yards and stopped the engine before it stopped itself. The AA attended within the hour and the bike was taken to the nearest Honda dealer (though hardly local). The next day a technician calls me to say no major problems, the fuel has been drained but they do have to replace one small part (but I can't recall the description). Time passes, I finally get the nod that the bike is ready for collection.... and am told the bill is pushing £400. Sorry, what?! I was expecting a fair bill (do they wack on a surcharge for idiocy?) but this has taken me aback. So, does anyone know what the national labour charge is for Honda dealers? And which parts would need replacing (on a brand new bike) for this work? The bike was not sold to me by this dealer as they had sold out of 2020 models so I purchased online from another part of the country. That probably didn't go in my favour either. 

 

They really are taking the P just needed to drain the tank & refill with fresh petrol, ask me how I know!

The problem is getting rid of the diesel / petrol mix, I burned mine in small quantity's in the back garden, doing my bit for the environment.

[Robi55 94]

Thanks all. Good to know I'm not the only one who's done it. I haven't asked for the itemised bill yet but would alwasy do this...I was choking too much after the hearing the VM from the rather too smug sounding girl from the service department to want to call them back. Will check labour hours and rate, parts used (and reasoning) tomorrow and report back. It's almost cancelled out the discount I got on the thing in the first place....

[Tonyj 6,907]

My friend put diesel in his ducati on Christmas Day :0)) we still bring it up but I unfortunately can’t join in the mirth as I did the same on my superduke the day after having it fully serviced but at least it wasn’t on jimbos birthday...

[MatBin 5,092]

Petrol in my diesel car, oops, full tank from empty too, so £60 worth of fuel drained and another £60 worth put in. Running all petrol vehicles now

But it's still easy to squirt the wrong stuff into a bike as we have great big holes to shove the nozzle, don't modern cars/fuel stations have different pump nozzles or fillers now to prevent wrong fuelling.

£400 sounds steep.

Good job we won't be able to fill up with the wrong electricity

[listener 11,191]

18 hours ago, Rev Ken said:

I'm a little puzzled suggesting petrol injectors and hoses would suffer from diesel.

 

My suggestion came from the thought that, since diesel is a bit denser than petrol, it might gum up injectors or filters.

 

I live and learn, Ken.  

[Robi55 94]

So, I only got round to collecting the bike this morning. Looking at the service bill, the only parts used were 5 litres of unleaded, a retainer at £4.95 and a damper connector at £4.13. However I was also charged over 4 hours labour which came to £281.45.  Total bill with VAT: £356. Certainly the most expensive 200 yards I've ever done.

[MatBin 5,092]

50 minutes ago, Robi55 said:

So, I only got round to collecting the bike this morning. Looking at the service bill, the only parts used were 5 litres of unleaded, a retainer at £4.95 and a damper connector at £4.13. However I was also charged over 4 hours labour which came to £281.45.  Total bill with VAT: £356. Certainly the most expensive 200 yards I've ever done.

4 hrs labour, what did they do take the friggin engine out?

[Johnnie Mototrans 2,766]

On 14/06/2021 at 23:29, MatBin said:

Good job we won't be able to fill up with the wrong electricity

 

Oh Matt

I think you are underestimating our collective capacity for stupidity.

I will bet that someone somewhere has already fried their Nissan Leaf by forcing the lead to fit a Tesla charger.

Or at least put deisel in their petrol hybrid.

 

[Johnnie Mototrans 2,766]

 

Course their is a solution.

[MatBin 5,092]

I can see a market in adapters.

[Andy m 23,547]

16 hours ago, Robi55 said:

So, I only got round to collecting the bike this morning. Looking at the service bill, the only parts used were 5 litres of unleaded, a retainer at £4.95 and a damper connector at £4.13. However I was also charged over 4 hours labour which came to £281.45.  Total bill with VAT: £356. Certainly the most expensive 200 yards I've ever done.

 They've taken the petrol tank, pump and pipes as far as the injectors off, the retainer is a C-clip on the pipe that breaks every other time. It's an expedition through a lot of plastic on an NC. It's thorough if somewhat overkill. On that basis I'm afraid you don't have much of an argument on the bill. 

 

Put it down to experience and consider learning a bit more about such things so if anything similar happens you can question their plans up front. Always tell a mechanic, especially a dealers mechanic, you are on a budget. A good one will explain the job and why its all necessary and how if you want a bodge job there is a bloke under the railway arches. Places with expresso machines in the waiting room will try the "can't invalidate the warranty" route. If they do, run away. 

 

Andy

[jeremyr62 2,560]

They appear to have a done a more than thorough job. If it were me I would have had it recovered back to home and sucked the diesel out with a Pela pump. A few residual litres will just make it smoke a bit as the diesel is ejected as unburnt vapour. I agree that you should just chalk it up to experience. We've all done it. All part of life's rich tapestry.