Bike rolls after switching from neutral to first gear.

[Ink_operated 4]

My NC700 (dct) bike begins to roll if I switch the bike from neutral to 1st gear (after start up) and refuses to go back into neutral when parking. I figure the shift pin must be broken so I ordered a new one but it's strange that it begins to roll when I go from neutral to first which leads me to believe the clutches aren't disengaging. I stopped riding the bike at the risk this would burn out the clutch plates. Anyone has any idea on what I should do or what could be the problem? Bike is way out of warranty and there is no dealerships in my country but i am pretty handy so I could work on it myself with guidance.  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Ink_operated

[Rocker66 34,370]

Hi welcome to the forum. Sorry to read of your problem. I can’t help but there are plenty of members on here with much technical knowledge so I’m sure they will be along to help.

May I ask which country your in?.

[MatBin 5,078]

Welcome along.

Have a search for pin replacement, someone in Oz had to replace a pin and he documented the procedure on this forum really well.

Alternatively @davebikewill do it for you, depending where you live, he's in South London.

Oops just noticed you wrote no dealer in your country, so where are you based.

Edited September 28, 2021 by MatBin

[Ink_operated 4]

1 hour ago, MatBin said:

Welcome along.

Have a search for pin replacement, someone in Oz had to replace a pin and he documented the procedure on this forum really well.

Alternatively @davebikewill do it for you, depending where you live, he's in South London.

Oops just noticed you wrote no dealer in your country, so where are you based.

Thank you for your response. I already bought the shift pin just waiting for it to arrive...but I'm perplexed as to what's causing the bike to roll when stopped. The DCT should disengage the clutches untill I use the throttle. 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Ink_operated

[MikeBike 5,005]

Have you tried the clutch reset procedure which Lets it self adjust the take up?

It's different for different model years of bike. A search oh here should turn it up. Worth a try as it's just pressing buttons.

[davebike 943]

Hi

Dose not sound like the pin issue sounds like to fast a tick over or clutch not disengaging properly

Has the bike just had an oil change if so were BOTH filters changed? was a clutch reset done ??

What revs is you bike ticking over at should be no more than 1400 ??

Is you thottle closing freely or is it sticking? is there free play at the thottle ?

 

 

[trisaki 2,029]

Possible too much oil or wrong  grade - in the UK it is 10w30  

[MikeBike 5,005]

15 minutes ago, trisaki said:

Possible too much oil or wrong  grade - in the UK it is 10w30  

I had too much oil in my new DCT and it manifiested itself (apart from misting out of the breather) as a very narrow (hi revs)  take up of the clutch for manoevring - had to be about 1800 revs exactly - less no drive, more too much. Very difficult to manage.

[Ink_operated 4]

8 hours ago, MikeBike said:

Have you tried the clutch reset procedure which Lets it self adjust the take up?

It's different for different model years of bike. A search oh here should turn it up. Worth a try as it's just pressing buttons.

As soon as I change the shift pin I will try this. Could likely be the cause. In the current state the bike is I tried the DCT calibration but the DS still shows which means it was unsuccessful. 

[Ink_operated 4]

8 hours ago, davebike said:

Hi

Dose not sound like the pin issue sounds like to fast a tick over or clutch not disengaging properly

Has the bike just had an oil change if so were BOTH filters changed? was a clutch reset done ??

What revs is you bike ticking over at should be no more than 1400 ??

Is you thottle closing freely or is it sticking? is there free play at the thottle ?

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's the pin because it refuses to shift into neutral but shifts into first... I tried a clutch reset but that failed and DS is still shown on the dash. It shifts gears like normal when riding but there is no clutch disengagement at lower revs or idle revs. My throttle is fine and haven't done a recent oil change. I have oil and new filters (I live in a very hot climate so I am using 10w-40 full synthetic Motul oil and HiFlo filters but I have not done a recent oil change. The oil level is half way up the dip stick...is this the normal level?)

 

Everything checks out normal on the bike. It starts fine and switches to neutral when the bike is off with no problems so it could be an oil level problem. What oil level should I be at?

Edited September 29, 2021 by Ink_operated

[poldark 1,509]

I'm not sure it would explain your symptoms, but Honda specify 10W30 for the DCT bike for a reason, I would not use 10W40.

 

From memory the normal oil level is at the top level of the graduated marks on the dipstick (level ground not screwed in) but would be useful if someone else confirms this.

[MikeBike 5,005]

I did 31000 miles on 10W 40 without issue.

 

DS in the display means the clutch reset is necessary or hasn't worked and to repeat.

 

 

[Ink_operated 4]

3 hours ago, poldark said:

I'm not sure it would explain your symptoms, but Honda specify 10W30 for the DCT bike for a reason, I would not use 10W40.

 

From memory the normal oil level is at the top level of the graduated marks on the dipstick (level ground not screwed in) but would be useful if someone else confirms this.

So after checking the manual it states that the oil level should fall directly in the middle of the graduated marks on the dip stick and turns out I have wayyyyyyyyyy too much oil. So I'm gonna try draining it tomorrow morning to see what that fixes but I still think I need to replace my shift pin. 

[MikeBike 5,005]

7 minutes ago, Ink_operated said:

So after checking the manual it states that the oil level should fall directly in the middle of the graduated marks on the dip stick and turns out I have wayyyyyyyyyy too much oil. So I'm gonna try draining it tomorrow morning to see what that fixes but I still think I need to replace my shift pin. 

 

 

The 2011 NC700X manual says

 

Insert the oil fill cap/dipstick until it seats,
but don’t screw it in.
Check that the oil level is between the
upper and lower level marks in the oil fill
cap/dipstick.

 

Do not overfill above the upper level
mark.

 

and my 2021 NC 750X manual says the exact same wording.

 

I'm curious that there is a manual that says different. What country are you in?

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by MikeBike

[Ink_operated 4]

1 hour ago, MikeBike said:

 

 

The 2011 NC700X manual says

 

Insert the oil fill cap/dipstick until it seats,
but don’t screw it in.
Check that the oil level is between the
upper and lower level marks in the oil fill
cap/dipstick.

 

Do not overfill above the upper level
mark.

 

and my 2021 NC 750X manual says the exact same wording.

 

I'm curious that there is a manual that says different. What country are you in?

 

I live in the caribbean. Hot climate it's currently 85 fahrenheit or 29 Celsius. The manual says the exact words like you stated. So tomorrow I will drain some of the oil and find out if it fixes the clutch not disengaging at idle problem. 

[davebike 943]

What is the bike idling at  should be 1400  if up near 1800 it will be trying to pull away as soon as in gear!

[Ink_operated 4]

10 hours ago, davebike said:

What is the bike idling at  should be 1400  if up near 1800 it will be trying to pull away as soon as in gear!

@davebike idles at about 1200-1400 and still pulls out at idle. I'm hoping after I change the shift pin, put the correct amount of oil and do a DCT reset it'll resolve everything. What are your thoughts?

[MatBin 5,078]

The pin change isn't particularly easy, if it were me I would do an oil level correction, or more likely replace it as you don't know what's in there at present. Bike oil is different from car oil, maybe someone put car oil in there. I would imagine a DCT bike is very specific in needing bike oil, then a DCT reset before pulling the gearbox/clutch apart.

Edited September 30, 2021 by MatBin

[RoyG 233]

18 minutes ago, MatBin said:

I would do an oil level correction, or more likely replace it as you don't know what's in there at present. Bike oil is different from car oil, maybe someone put car oil in there

That's right . I had a fazer once that tried to pull away if I didn't have the brake on. An oil change cured it.

[Ink_operated 4]

1 hour ago, MatBin said:

The pin change isn't particularly easy, if it were me I would do an oil level correction, or more likely replace it as you don't know what's in there at present. Bike oil is different from car oil, maybe someone put car oil in there. I would imagine a DCT bike is very specific in needing bike oil, then a DCT reset before pulling the gearbox/clutch apart.

@MatBin @RoyG I absolutely agree because it's weird that there is an excess of oil in the engine. The shift pin is pretty easy for me to change. You just have to take the side cover off, loosen a couple bolts and put the new one on torque spec is 22 ft lbs. My plan is to do an oil change after swapping the shift pin since I would need to drain all the oil to change the pin anyway. 

[omy005 66]

I recently changed the broken shift pin on my Integra. Made no difference to the slight drag that I experience when cold, there is still some drag when hot also but not enough to affect riding. It's mainly noticeable when on the center stand. It's a wet clutch so there is always some drag?

[davebike 943]

I would think it is a clutch issue  my feeling is at least one clutch is dragging 

Do the shift pin but I not sure it is the problem but do the other bit that go with it new fresh oil 10/30 and two new filters

The DCT clutches produce very little dag at least on those I seen

The bike seems to have clutch drag well that is the symptoms you describe 

While doing the pin I have a real good look at both clutches if it was in my Workshop

[MikeBike 5,005]

When I click my bike into D I feel a sloight move forward by a mm or two as if it's just taking up the slack in what moves freely forward and when back into N a slight 'relax' back again. Not enough to move the wheels but enough to notice. I wonder if others notice this. I don't remember it from my old one.

[Ink_operated 4]

6 hours ago, davebike said:

I would think it is a clutch issue  my feeling is at least one clutch is dragging 

Do the shift pin but I not sure it is the problem but do the other bit that go with it new fresh oil 10/30 and two new filters

The DCT clutches produce very little dag at least on those I seen

The bike seems to have clutch drag well that is the symptoms you describe 

While doing the pin I have a real good look at both clutches if it was in my Workshop

@davebike the lighter oil might do the trick since it could be a hydraulic problem. I don't think the clutches are bad (will still have a look) because if they were they would slip more and my issue is I'm experiencing no slip at idle but I could be wrong... I'm no engineer. I have the service manual which is very comprehensive so I will inspect as many parts as I can and let you guys know what happens.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Ink_operated

[davebike 943]

Clutches fail in two ways   Slip and drag   you description IS DRAG !

Slip is failour to fully engage  most often worn friction plates or springs

Drag is failour to full disengage most often dammage to metal plates or drums

the DCT clutches are hydrolicly operated adding oil, oil filters, oil pump,and control valves to the possiable causes of clutch issues

Your description is classic clutch drag issue although I never seen it or heard of it on a DCT bike