Bolts not coming out

[sams700 372]

I am trying to remove some mudguard bolts.  They turn and just keep on turning without coming loose. 

 

Sprayed lots of WD40 and left it for few hours, but thsy just keep turning. 

 

Anything I can do to get them out? 

 

Thanks 

[Andy m 23,465]

What's on the back of them? Honda love "captive" nuts which when they aren't do exactly as you describe. A photo to ID which ones would be useful. 

 

Andy

[sams700 372]

6 minutes ago, Andy m said:

What's on the back of them? Honda love "captive" nuts which when they aren't do exactly as you describe. A photo to ID which ones would be useful. 

 

Andy

Andy it's on a Triumph, but they simply fit on a plastic bit.  No captive nuts, however, they sit right above the tire do maybe full of dirt! 

[Andy m 23,465]

Something must be threaded to match the bolt. That something will be metal in 99 out of 100 cases. Probably a bodywork fastener like this

 

 

The thread corrodes to the bolt and on the first attempt to remove them the folded section of flat metal snaps. You need to grab the threaded tube bit with grips. This will often require the wheel to be removed. 

 

Andy

 

 

[sams700 372]

OK thanks Andy, may have to leave it in that case, as no way the front wheel is coming out as I don't have the confidence to put the bike on the paddock stand 

[MatBin 5,080]

3 hours ago, sams700 said:

OK thanks Andy, may have to leave it in that case, as no way the front wheel is coming out as I don't have the confidence to put the bike on the paddock stand 

No centre stand? Can you not get to the underside of the clip and hold it then drill the head off the bolt?

[sams700 372]

It's going to have to be that, but leaving that to a dealer when I get the engine bars fitted. 

 

Cant seem to tighten or loosen them and they fit into a brass collar. 

[sams700 372]

So the issue is that the bolts have bonded to the brass collar and in turning it all, the brass collar has moved away from the plastic. Any ideas before I take it to the Triumph dealer? 

 

Thanks 

[Trev 18,561]

30 minutes ago, sams700 said:

So the issue is that the bolts have bonded to the brass collar and in turning it all, the brass collar has moved away from the plastic. Any ideas before I take it to the Triumph dealer? 

 

Thanks 

 Pics would help

[sams700 372]

Let's see if this works

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GZQJ3PGwRoAhgs1SAz-Hwfjks99bYCkw/view?usp=drivesdk

[Rocker66 34,371]

1 hour ago, sams700 said:

Let's see if this works

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GZQJ3PGwRoAhgs1SAz-Hwfjks99bYCkw/view?usp=drivesdk

Just tells me I need to gain access.

[sams700 372]

Please try again Let's see if this works

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GZQJ3PGwRoAhgs1SAz-Hwfjks99bYCkw/view?usp=drivesdk

[Rocker66 34,371]

4 minutes ago, sams700 said:

Please try again Let's see if this works

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GZQJ3PGwRoAhgs1SAz-Hwfjks99bYCkw/view?usp=drivesdk

That workedOK.

[kayz1 2,928]

I take it that is meant to be an Allen head ! disk cutter and put a cut across it like an x see if you can tap a stubby screwdriver in to undo it.

If not wheel out and drill it out.

[Argyll 1,334]

Even a small hacksaw blade (and some patience) will allow you to cut a slot across the head.

[Andy m 23,465]

This looks to be a plastic boss in the panel into which Triumph have inserted a "brass" rivnut type thing. The bolt (as dissimilar metals have been known to do for 2000 years) has corroded to the insert. 

 

You need to hold the insert still because if it spins enough, say during drilling the panel will melt. Ideas:

 

1. Is there enough thread to insert another bolt from the back? Run a nut down this, lock them to the insert then use the hex on this bolt to hold the assembly while turning out the problem bolt. 

 

b. Will mole grips distort the plastic boss enough to get a grip? 

 

iii). Dremel, junior hacksaw, file, a slot across insert and boss enough get a big screw driver in. 

 

Once sorted I'd undo every similar fastener you can get at and copperslip the threads.

 

Andy

[sams700 372]

Cheers all. Sorry for the rubbish picture, but its what Andy said. 

 

I am getting some plus gas today and see if that helps. 

 

I did try put another bolt on the underside and hold that while trying the other to no avail, but it may work if I get some plus gas there first.

 

My issue is going to be even if I get the nuts out I am not sure I can then refit new bolts in as the whole assembly will still move. 

 

Unless I dremel the boss and use the screwdriver trick. However my sills are limited so may just leave it as is. 

[MatBin 5,080]

It looks like the plastic thing is the 'nut' and there's a brass metal insert to give it sufficient strength to take a bolt? In which case the plastic isn't really doing much and can be broken away to reveal the brass insert which you can then Dremel off from below, possibly enough room to not need wheel out?  Or remove the bolt head from above, bit risky that you might slip and gauge the plastic item. Do it a bit at a time to prevent heat build up, as Andy says above, or you will melt the mudguard/panel. Alternatively you may then be able to grip the brass item from below enough to allow the bolt to break it's grip. I have seen these captive things before, often with a rubber nut rather than hard plastic, awful things unless kept clean.

 

Is this your new XE? I assume it's 2nd hand? Why are you removing the mudguard?

[Andy m 23,465]

Once the old bolt is out the solutions open up. If there is space to get a spanner in drill the thread out so the brass is just a washer supporting a new nyloc. Superglue to refix it. Fill with epoxy and drill and tap that. 

 

Andy. 

[sams700 372]

Is this the secondhand XE. It came with a beak mudguard and I thought it would make sense to fit the longer lower one for winter. Whole job turned out south. 

 

I don't need to remove the wheel as I can take the whole mudguard off and get to the bottom. What I cant seem to do after than is sort it out easily. 

 

A new mudguard assembly is £200!

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GvUz_kABV1em6hCue4qJzf_6XQeQbBYu/view?usp=drivesdk

Edited January 2, 2022 by sams700
Added link

[davebike 943]

Just like Honda fairing rubber nuts a rubber insert witha Brass thread and a stainless bolt  if you tighten them or do not grease they jam 

I just drill the head off slowly 2mm drimm 3mmdrill etc etc leaving time to cool of spraying water  you may nee ti jam or glue the insert in place Utter pain !

Then just replace with rubber nut glued in  use anit size copperslip or alley sli work Ok ish  DO NOT Over tighten !

[Steve Case 939]

Hows the build quality on the new Trumpets, mines solid but workmanlike but its 18 years old now! Things may have changed.

[sams700 372]

I am either going to take it to a garage or a friend or leave it. It still functions just a pain not to be able to use the full mudguard 

[sams700 372]

Well I attempted to  bang in a torque head, which failed and then cut a slot with a chisel, which just burst the brass bit, so gave up.  Guess will have to leave it for someone with more competency than me,sigh

[wjvh 999]

It’s only brass, soft as, just drill or dremel it out.