2021 DCT 2 months on: A couple of questions

[Big E 29]

Wow! Thanx for all your comments

 

I will make sure my chain is regularly oiled now. Time to bring out that chain cleaning brush which I've never had to use. Will also look at a cheap oiler.

 

I can confirm that I always flick into neutral before switching engine off so am suspecting sticking handbrake. I'll look into it.

[Grumpy old man 4,670]

1 hour ago, Big E said:

Wow! Thanx for all your comments

 

I will make sure my chain is regularly oiled now. Time to bring out that chain cleaning brush which I've never had to use. Will also look at a cheap oiler.

 

I can confirm that I always flick into neutral before switching engine off so am suspecting sticking handbrake. I'll look into it.

Keep us informed please. 

Good luck.

[Empty_Ten 441]

3 hours ago, Big E said:

Wow! Thanx for all your comments

 

I will make sure my chain is regularly oiled now. Time to bring out that chain cleaning brush which I've never had to use. Will also look at a cheap oiler.

 

I can confirm that I always flick into neutral before switching engine off so am suspecting sticking handbrake. I'll look into it.

Regarding the Chain oiler, I tried the Loobman, just a bit too inconsistent for me, too many cable ties, easily clogged and a bit too Blue Peter for me.  But, it is cheap.  I discovered it on the recommendation of a member here and for the price they are/were (around £20 delivered) it was well worth trying as I’d always liked the concept of chain oilers but didn’t want to shell out Scottoiler prices and having had a less than impressive experience with the Other highly praised brand, Tutoro.

 

I’ve now got a far Easter copy of the Cobrra Nemo 2 (the copying company is called Gidibi).  Bought a copy (around £35) as I still wasn’t sold on the idea of chain oilers after my experience with the Loobman 

 

  Anyway. It’s semi automatic, you activate it by rotating the reservoir/unit, 1/4 turn releases oil for 3 minutes.  Been using it for a while now and very happy with it.  

I don’t typically like to buy from the Far East and tend to support the original brand if I can.  I had planned to buy the Genuine item if I liked it but the copy works very, very well.  i did however buy a handlebar mounting bracket from Cobrra so at least I did send some money their way.
 

I timed the oil release for the 1/4 turn and it was pretty much dead on 3 minutes.  I just use 10/40 oil in it, bought a cheap bottle from Tesco and I’m sure I’ll get years out of it.  
 

Chain looks great and wet (sign that its lubricated).  If there is too much oil on the chain, it will drip a few drops when parked up.  I have an old car mat under the bike when I park up in the garage.  This happened with the tutoro on my fireblade as well.

 

Having just looked for them on that auction site, they’re starting at £23 shipped now which is cheaper than when I got mine and puts it in the same price brand as the Loobman, I would chose the Cobrra/Gidibi all day long. 
 

Here is the link to one https://www.that auction site.co.uk/itm/264029530544?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d7962e9b0:g:Dx8AAOSwWRFdgD7q&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%2B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsStdebXPz4ZTXCT8FI9kPBhwXpW%2B14FMLBqE19EdZFZPZYCEiPNJ7nzgIjYW%2F0twOsPj3bcOPRtH3bL03nDTvPEI9G82Mdwa%2B%2FHtOMjSytujLjzL9usj6W7zqR8Ac5MVg%2Bs%2F%2BXMkY0sb79UTy5kFjPuTeOVvbTNA7uRdYZcShetuiWoUxa%2FP5WTEvhKGNjjaCnnQFNUbx43dYd67yqfWcaKSYoU6vi7xY0z7TJNBTSKnVzqIJsn%2BXxIhgGrOFHEdHA3%2FdgFO5eajh%2BS1ZqPA9Jz4EgWMOlKvfVcXvtp49lzmP7GysS12RUCWpiYL%2BMyW5%2FY%2FX%2BdSzsSx0XmlnHlo%2B%2Bc1p3S4qd4yDuuKWgTOemnHRnbbdPo57aY016ZqaIAHPPVjCGTxI0LnSiTz8dpGD6edxdcFkBXLV%2F4UIpr7CffKvNSj8Bnq02tydZdZ3gXvYgpHvzlvBPEUZw0gRzxalEeZZsgeAmLUE1K6R2gwOe1tsbIpRxgDKCsNbPkiEE4L%2FUF6hMpJ1vXLplbjPwiTyWsU1GcwuG2mQ8psNtnET1f1hemtjiv8Lh%2BwBkeS0ZBmo4xjOXkm95tCG0z6uueF7IftCF2VXAFnSKLQONah6k%2F7URYN5TIy3sHxjE%2F64Vu%2F%2FSj6Sc4Svf0ji%2BoP13s4hgegEPgibW5I5EFs5eYBJjUAq2fkUBbR6PI7lqeSG9rI4Jk2abuMfXRL2K1idhwOdmjUUdmV3YiqALh%2FafDcY2Cc1Wch8y%2F%2B2GKHKN7d%2Bx%2F0N7bN4rzpujj3ryKODClsl3f2Tyw2aod8WbkQmGZvrLLvqSUowyr%2BgSI4KF9Egp%2BXD9|clp%3A2334524|tkp%3ABFBMmN3B9cVf

 

I have no vested interest or affiliation with Cobrra/Gidibi.  As before, the concept of chain oilers had always interested me but I did not want to spend scottoiler prices for something I might not like.  I was really tempted to get a Cobrra/Gidibi for my MT10 as well, but it’s a bit overkill on a fairweather bike which does 1-2000 miles a year.  I am definitely converted in using Gear/Engine oil (in the MT10’s case I will be brushing it on) over aerosol spray lubes though which is what I’d been doing before.

[Xactly 5,340]

44 minutes ago, Empty_Ten said:

Regarding the Chain oiler, I tried the Loobman, just a bit too inconsistent for me, too many cable ties, easily clogged and a bit too Blue Peter for me.  But, it is cheap.  I discovered it on the recommendation of a member here and for the price they are/were (around £20 delivered) it was well worth trying as I’d always liked the concept of chain oilers but didn’t want to shell out Scottoiler prices and having had a less than impressive experience with the Other highly praised brand, Tutoro.

 

I’ve now got a far Easter copy of the Cobrra Nemo 2 (the copying company is called Gidibi).  Bought a copy (around £35) as I still wasn’t sold on the idea of chain oilers after my experience with the Loobman 

 

  Anyway. It’s semi automatic, you activate it by rotating the reservoir/unit, 1/4 turn releases oil for 3 minutes.  Been using it for a while now and very happy with it.  

I don’t typically like to buy from the Far East and tend to support the original brand if I can.  I had planned to buy the Genuine item if I liked it but the copy works very, very well.  i did however buy a handlebar mounting bracket from Cobrra so at least I did send some money their way.
 

I timed the oil release for the 1/4 turn and it was pretty much dead on 3 minutes.  I just use 10/40 oil in it, bought a cheap bottle from Tesco and I’m sure I’ll get years out of it.  
 

Chain looks great and wet (sign that its lubricated).  If there is too much oil on the chain, it will drip a few drops when parked up.  I have an old car mat under the bike when I park up in the garage.  This happened with the tutoro on my fireblade as well.

 

Having just looked for them on that auction site, they’re starting at £23 shipped now which is cheaper than when I got mine and puts it in the same price brand as the Loobman, I would chose the Cobrra/Gidibi all day long. 
 

Here is the link to one https://www.that auction site.co.uk/itm/264029530544?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3d7962e9b0:g:Dx8AAOSwWRFdgD7q&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACkPYe5NmHp%2B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsStdebXPz4ZTXCT8FI9kPBhwXpW%2B14FMLBqE19EdZFZPZYCEiPNJ7nzgIjYW%2F0twOsPj3bcOPRtH3bL03nDTvPEI9G82Mdwa%2B%2FHtOMjSytujLjzL9usj6W7zqR8Ac5MVg%2Bs%2F%2BXMkY0sb79UTy5kFjPuTeOVvbTNA7uRdYZcShetuiWoUxa%2FP5WTEvhKGNjjaCnnQFNUbx43dYd67yqfWcaKSYoU6vi7xY0z7TJNBTSKnVzqIJsn%2BXxIhgGrOFHEdHA3%2FdgFO5eajh%2BS1ZqPA9Jz4EgWMOlKvfVcXvtp49lzmP7GysS12RUCWpiYL%2BMyW5%2FY%2FX%2BdSzsSx0XmlnHlo%2B%2Bc1p3S4qd4yDuuKWgTOemnHRnbbdPo57aY016ZqaIAHPPVjCGTxI0LnSiTz8dpGD6edxdcFkBXLV%2F4UIpr7CffKvNSj8Bnq02tydZdZ3gXvYgpHvzlvBPEUZw0gRzxalEeZZsgeAmLUE1K6R2gwOe1tsbIpRxgDKCsNbPkiEE4L%2FUF6hMpJ1vXLplbjPwiTyWsU1GcwuG2mQ8psNtnET1f1hemtjiv8Lh%2BwBkeS0ZBmo4xjOXkm95tCG0z6uueF7IftCF2VXAFnSKLQONah6k%2F7URYN5TIy3sHxjE%2F64Vu%2F%2FSj6Sc4Svf0ji%2BoP13s4hgegEPgibW5I5EFs5eYBJjUAq2fkUBbR6PI7lqeSG9rI4Jk2abuMfXRL2K1idhwOdmjUUdmV3YiqALh%2FafDcY2Cc1Wch8y%2F%2B2GKHKN7d%2Bx%2F0N7bN4rzpujj3ryKODClsl3f2Tyw2aod8WbkQmGZvrLLvqSUowyr%2BgSI4KF9Egp%2BXD9|clp%3A2334524|tkp%3ABFBMmN3B9cVf

 

I have no vested interest or affiliation with Cobrra/Gidibi.  As before, the concept of chain oilers had always interested me but I did not want to spend scottoiler prices for something I might not like.  I was really tempted to get a Cobrra/Gidibi for my MT10 as well, but it’s a bit overkill on a fairweather bike which does 1-2000 miles a year.  I am definitely converted in using Gear/Engine oil (in the MT10’s case I will be brushing it on) over aerosol spray lubes though which is what I’d been doing before.

I prefer oil to spray lubes too. My chain always looks oily. Any fling is easily removed (Gunk) and, unlike a lot of spray on stuff, it doesn’t clag up (technical expression) the area around the gearbox sprocket. On some bikes there is very little clearance around the sprocket. That said, the NC chain is not the best quality and it does need looking after. Personally I use Scottoiler oil because it flows nicely and have the electronic Scottoiler that works from vibration and connects directly to the battery. There is a prime function that is handy for oiling the chain after I’ve cleaned the bike/chain. (I have a mainstand). I remove the Scottoiler when I change bikes and I find their customer service is excellent having on two separate occasions been sent foc certain spares. Not the cheapest but they do last well and the flow rate is easily adjustable - so higher setting in rubbish weather and lower on sunny  days/dry roads. No connection- just a satisfied customer.

[jeremyr62 2,538]

I'm a big advocate of Scottoilers. I found this while considering buying a high mileage VFR800. In summary, the owner got 62K miles on the OE chain using a Scottoiler.

https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/classic-bikesocial/buying-advice/honda-vfr800-2001-review-high-mileage-project-bike

[SteveThackery 3,090]

20 hours ago, temp said:

Modern chains have sealed lubrication, so cosmetic rust is irrelevant and chain lube is a ripoff.

 

There is one thing I would point out (without taking sides).  The seals only retain the lubricant inside the joints between the plates.  The rollers themselves are not sealed.  That means the rollers do run dry if you don't lubricate them.

 

It's up to you to decide how much it matters when you run with dry rollers.  They don't cause the chain to elongate if they wear.  I have noticed, though, that dry rollers can be noisy and on one of my bikes the chain made a squeaking noise until I lubricated them.  In theory I can see how dry rollers might increase engaging friction between the chain and the sprockets, although I don't know if it would be significant.  

So, modern chains are sealed where it matters most: at the joints between the plates.  But they are not fully sealed - lubricant can enter (and leave) the internal surface of the rollers.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by SteveThackery

[baben 11,698]

I tried a Loobman but did not get on with it. Had a vacuum powered Scotolier (V Strom, VFR800, CBF 1000) - ok but you needed to take care to get it set up right. Had the very expensive one which I don't think they make any more, on the Tiger. That worked well but was very expensive. Tried a PD oiler (orifginal NC750) not very impressed. Finally tried a Tutoro. Works well and easy to install. Fitted one to RubyToo and one to Baby.  Not cheap though. They are now automatic and have a vibration activated valve so only release oil when you are moving. Very easy to adjust the flow rate too  for when it gets really cold or hot. My local Honda dealer now offers them as a default if you want an oiler - reckoned other makes were too expensive and not as reliable.

[OldSteve 67]

That's plus 1 for the Tutoro system - easy to install and works well.

[Dr D 21]

Yes Tutoro works well for my NC, the Scottoiler seems to work on the Z1000 fine. The Ariel and AJS are manually oiled. I am now banned from boiling up with "Link Life" on the stove, we have become so soft!

[Xactly 5,340]

35 minutes ago, Dr D said:

Yes Tutoro works well for my NC, the Scottoiler seems to work on the Z1000 fine. The Ariel and AJS are manually oiled. I am now banned from boiling up with "Link Life" on the stove, we have become so soft!

 ….and less waterproof😊

[SteveThackery 3,090]

Like most (but not all) other chain lubricators, the flow rate varies with viscosity (which in turn varies with temperature).  You have to be prepared to tweak it when the weather changes.

 

I'd prefer a pumped system that dispenses a fixed amount, but this complicates things because it would need a power supply.  The Tutoro is brilliant in needing nothing other than the movement of the bike to activate it.

[Empty_Ten 441]

16 hours ago, Xactly said:

…unlike a lot of spray on stuff, it doesn’t clag up (technical expression) the area around the gearbox sprocket. …

I’m glad you’ve confirmed that!  That was one of the reasons which made me consider the change.

 

I’ve never removed the front sprocket cover on any bike to clean the front, it just never occurred to me.  When I had the C&S changed on the MT, the mechanic took a photo of the front sprocket and I was absolutely shocked at how much crap there was in there .  Even bits of blue roll that I use to dry off the chain.  I’d have to remove the Denali horn and gear shift rod to access the front sprocket cover….so, the too difficult box.  I’m due to replace C&S at the next service - so fresh start and hopefully a clag free (or much less of it) future for the MT.

[jeremyr62 2,538]

For info, I have never cleaned a chain in my 35 year biking career. Can't see the point. I use a chain oiler and that keeps it clean enough.

[Xactly 5,340]

2 hours ago, Empty_Ten said:

I’m glad you’ve confirmed that!  That was one of the reasons which made me consider the change.

 

I’ve never removed the front sprocket cover on any bike to clean the front, it just never occurred to me.  When I had the C&S changed on the MT, the mechanic took a photo of the front sprocket and I was absolutely shocked at how much crap there was in there .  Even bits of blue roll that I use to dry off the chain.  I’d have to remove the Denali horn and gear shift rod to access the front sprocket cover….so, the too difficult box.  I’m due to replace C&S at the next service - so fresh start and hopefully a clag free (or much less of it) future for the MT.

Yes, it’s amazing how bunged up that area gets with grease-based chain lube.

[MPG100 381]

FortNine is a good website and does excellent reviews incl chainlube.

Trying to remember where I read that the bristles on many 3 sided chain cleaning brushes are too stiff and damage the chain o rings.Following sound advice on here I stopped using £££ sprays and now use toothbrush and gear oil which suprisingly is not as tedious as it sounds. However the chain still does attract some crap (tho not as bad as the grinding paste mess when using chain spray) so advice any on a good eco friendly chain cleaner welcome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnPYdcbcAe0 

Edited January 7, 2022 by MPG100

[Andy m 23,473]

I don't get why you are trying to preserve a consumable. What's the break-even point on all these oilers? On the Scottoil ones its 2-3 chains. Is it really going to be still working in 30000+ miles? 

 

Always just made sure mine weren't bowstring tight (especially after a dealers job creation scheme visit) and oiled with a can (old engine oil) and brush. Got about 15000 out of the ones where I kept the bike long enough. 

 

Andy

[Empty_Ten 441]

1 hour ago, Andy m said:

I don't get why you are trying to preserve a consumable. What's the break-even point on all these oilers? On the Scottoil ones its 2-3 chains. Is it really going to be still working in 30000+ miles? 

 

Always just made sure mine weren't bowstring tight (especially after a dealers job creation scheme visit) and oiled with a can (old engine oil) and brush. Got about 15000 out of the ones where I kept the bike long enough. 

 

Andy

Long term test with the chain oiler to be confirmed.

 

But, with the exception of the NC chain (took it for granted and neglected it), I’ve had 15,000+ miles on all chains and would expect more.

 

MT07, PX’d at 18,000 miles with plenty of life left on stock chain 

 

CBR1000RR, PX’d at 16,000 miles with plenty of life left on stock chain 

 

MT10, stock C&S replaced at 27,500 a right on its last legs and in hindsight, probably should’ve replaced at 25,000.

 

MT10,  DID ZVMX chain and JT/Supersprox sprockets, currently on 29,000 miles.  There’s a really tight spot on it now which renders the rest of the chain to be a bit on the loose side (if tightening to the tight spot) so that will get replaced on next service.

 

Lots of reports from users of getting 30,000+ miles after using oilers.  

article linked by @jeremyr62 from Bennett’s of someone getting over 60,000 miles on a stock Chain.

 

That aside, one of the reasons I switched to oil is to hopefully reduce the greasy gunk from aerosol spray lube.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Empty_Ten

[yellownev 1,983]

19 hours ago, baben said:

I tried a Loobman but did not get on with it. Had a vacuum powered Scotolier (V Strom, VFR800, CBF 1000) - ok but you needed to take care to get it set up right. Had the very expensive one which I don't think they make any more, on the Tiger. That worked well but was very expensive. Tried a PD oiler (orifginal NC750) not very impressed. Finally tried a Tutoro. Works well and easy to install. Fitted one to RubyToo and one to Baby.  Not cheap though. They are now automatic and have a vibration activated valve so only release oil when you are moving. Very easy to adjust the flow rate too  for when it gets really cold or hot. My local Honda dealer now offers them as a default if you want an oiler - reckoned other makes were too expensive and not as reliable.

+1 for the Tutoro.... I had one on my NC and now I have it on my Himalayan. Very reliable and simple plus a UK company. I also clean the chain maybe every 1000 miles and oil it back up with some gear oil. Just hit 9k on the Himalayan and the chain is hardly worn when others seem to be replacing their chains at a very early milage ( Himalayan owners)  

[jeremyr62 2,538]

1 hour ago, Andy m said:

I don't get why you are trying to preserve a consumable.

Cos changing a chain and sprockets can be a pita job if you do it properly. Vacuum Scottoilers work forever in my experience. There is nothing really to wear out. The new fangled electronic ones may not be as robust. I like the idea that if I am riding through crappy weather, the chain is still getting something. When I used aerosol cans, the stuff would be gone in a few miles in heavy rain, and the chain and sprockets would be bright shiny ground and polished steel.

[Xactly 5,340]

2 hours ago, jeremyr62 said:

Cos changing a chain and sprockets can be a pita job if you do it properly. Vacuum Scottoilers work forever in my experience. There is nothing really to wear out. The new fangled electronic ones may not be as robust. I like the idea that if I am riding through crappy weather, the chain is still getting something. When I used aerosol cans, the stuff would be gone in a few miles in heavy rain, and the chain and sprockets would be bright shiny ground and polished steel.

Me too. There’s not much to wear out in the electronic version either really. I have the one without the controls on the handlebars. As for cost effectiveness I don’t really care (as said, a royal PITA to change chain and sprockets) and anyway I transfer it from one bike to the next - perhaps easier with a non-vacuum one although I suppose it depends how it connects to the inlet. I can’t say I bother cleaning the chain much but I use Gunk or Jizer. It seems to me that these eco friendly modern water-based ones are expensive and don’t work very well (like water-based wood paint).

[Dr D 21]

In the late 70's the chain broke on the bailer while my father was making hay, he took the chain off his ariel motorbike and fixed the bailer. After that seasons harvest , he took the chain off the bailer, baked it in link life and put it back on the bike. He then proceeded to use the bike for a number of years. I can seem to remember no mention of an oiler of any description. The diesel and dust treatment must of worked, mind you as a kid I think diesel and dust was the suncream treatment of the day as well. 

 

[SteveM 706]

On 06/01/2022 at 09:24, Big E said:

I can confirm that I always flick into neutral before switching engine off 

Me too. I learnt the hard way 

[jeremyr62 2,538]

1 hour ago, Dr D said:

In the late 70's the chain broke on the bailer while my father was making hay, he took the chain off his ariel motorbike and fixed the bailer. After that seasons harvest , he took the chain off the bailer, baked it in link life and put it back on the bike. He then proceeded to use the bike for a number of years. I can seem to remember no mention of an oiler of any description. The diesel and dust treatment must of worked, mind you as a kid I think diesel and dust was the suncream treatment of the day as well. 

Well it was really just a motorised bicycle so hardly surprising. 

 

Ducks for cover...

[MatBin 5,080]

On 07/01/2022 at 09:58, Andy m said:

I don't get why you are trying to preserve a consumable. What's the break-even point on all these oilers? On the Scottoil ones its 2-3 chains. Is it really going to be still working in 30000+ miles? 

 

Always just made sure mine weren't bowstring tight (especially after a dealers job creation scheme visit) and oiled with a can (old engine oil) and brush. Got about 15000 out of the ones where I kept the bike long enough. 

 

Andy

I have had a few chains last in excess of 25k miles on my Sprints, didn't seem to matter if I treated them well or neglected them. An expensive chain oiler doesn't seem worthwhile unless it's a very expensive chain, as you say its a consumable item and unless touring doing high mileage and not wanting to fiddle with the chain I in don't see the point, each to their own though.

[Big E 29]

On 06/01/2022 at 10:28, Grumpy old man said:

Keep us informed please. 

Good luck.

So at the weekend I managed to find a free service manual download. I then removed the handbrake rear caliper (2 bolts), gave the assembly a bit of a wash then put it back on. It's now behaving perfectly so I suspect the pads were sticking.

I'll have look at it when I book bike in for software upgrade.

As for the chain, I'll just start keeping it well oiled.