Rear chain replacement

[MatBin 5,102]

Did the rear chain today, plus sprockets, all purchased from Wemoto.

Purchased an extra spring link incase I ruined the supplied one and a small chain link compressing tool (about £10 from Wemoto) which was basically a piece of bent metal, in a U shape and a bolt with a depression in the threaded part of the bolt, plus a depression in the bent metal. Sounds Heath Robinson but it worked well.

Easy enough apart from removing the front sprocket cover bolts, needed a very slim 8mm socket and had to wiggle the cover out of place, very un-Honda like.

On re-assembly what I did notice was the extremely sloppy fit of the adjusters around the axle, didn't fill me with confidence that the 'marks' would actually be of any use, so I measured to the middle of the axle instead from a fixed point on both sides.

Removed all of the gunge around the front sprocket area.

All in all not too bad a job, chain kit and bits added up to about £120

[Gringo 5,153]

Bought my replacement set well before crimbo and still not fitted it yet. One day I will get around to it. For adjustment accuracy I use a steel rule (or tyre tread depth gauge on some bikes) which is butted up to the swing arm end and take the measurement at the tip of the adjuster nut. Once it reads the same both side then bob's yer uncle.

[MatBin 5,102]

Forgot to add, the rear wheel sprocket bolts/studs decided that 2 of them would let the nut undo and the remainder the stud came out of the wheel, didn't make any real difference but I suspect someone in may have used thread locking compound previously, although this is the first chain swap as far as I know. 

Being a complete cowboy I neither added thread compound nor torqued the nuts, any of them, if it all disassembles I will let you know

[jeremyr62 2,580]

7 hours ago, MatBin said:

if it all disassembles I will let you know

Your swingarm will let you know as the emerging bolts will cut into it as you ride.

[Steve Case 957]

Did mine about a month or so ago, and used a did kx500 copy chain splitter. I suspect it may have overtightened the link slightly.

May get some spare links to test this out.

I tend to use a tourque wrench on everything but not threadlock, probably not feeling my inner german.

[MatBin 5,102]

2 hours ago, Steve Case said:

Did mine about a month or so ago, and used a did kx500 copy chain splitter. I suspect it may have overtightened the link slightly.

May get some spare links to test this out.

I tend to use a tourque wrench on everything but not threadlock, probably not feeling my inner german.

I used an angle grinder with metal cutting disc to 'break' the old chain, I used to have a chain link splitter, either I chucked it out years ago or I have 'lost' it, no doubt if I had bought a new one I would have found the old one 2 days later.

[Andy m 23,656]

Chain splitters break their pins very easily, so always worth at least getting started with a grinder or dremel. 

 

On something low powered like an NC a clip link works just as well and no skill required to judge the formed rivet head. 

 

Andy 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Andy m
pro dictaphone test

[Grumpy old man 4,682]

12 minutes ago, Andy m said:

 

On something low powered like an NC a clip link works just as well and no skill required to judge the formed rivet heat.

Just make sure you put it on correctly. They are easy to use even a Grumpy Numpty such as I can do it.

[MatBin 5,102]

I always wondered why it had to be closed end in direction of travel, didn't seem to matter to me what way round as the load is identical. Then I read it's in case the open end hits something, if it's in direction of travel it could be forced off the retaining pin, leaving the 'loose' link plate liable to also come off. Not sure that is as valid now as it used to be as the 'loose' link is now an interference fit with the pins, in the old days it really was a loose fit so could easily fall off.

I should think the chances of just that link hitting something are very small too and if your whole chain was hitting something you would stop and investigate rather than ignore and ride on surely?

 

So, given the load is trying to open the pins and the only thing stopping that are the side plates why would a rivetted or endless chain be any better than a split link version, the side plate on a split chain is probably just as strong as a rivetted one.

[Andy m 23,656]

A properly done rivet allows no movement between plate and head, its why they rivetted ships and boilers. A clip needs a running fit to go in, so by definition the plate can gain momentum for an impact type loading. What is forgotten though is that unlike a race chain (or something from 40 years ago) we have an o-ring in there. In the ideal, the seal will be over compressed on assembly then act as a damper. Very little movement. 

 

It's more race technology, what's easier for factories and what suits dealers that's driven the rivet route for years. 

 

Andy 

[Steve Case 957]

Y'know I may take the rivet link out and fit the splitty as it would allow me to take the chain off to clean it on both sides.

 

The chain makers always state 65% strength of a rivet link, but I wonder if this is fairytales to stop people using them.

[davebike 943]

I due to do this next week

I always rivet on over 40 bhp 

Years ago I had a warning from my insurers that they regarded this as the safe limmit for clip links followling advice from I think DID 

Back in the 1970's when  I started in the trade failed clip links were common what the cause was I not sure but I am just carefull

What you do on your bike is unlightly to be an issue  What I do as aprofesional or supply parts for could be an issue

 

[MatBin 5,102]

8 hours ago, Steve Case said:

Y'know I may take the rivet link out and fit the splitty as it would allow me to take the chain off to clean it on both sides.

 

The chain makers always state 65% strength of a rivet link, but I wonder if this is fairytales to stop people using them.

Once the 'free/loose' plate is in place I think it might be quite difficult to remove it as the holes for the pins are an interference fit i.e. the plate is not loose after assembly and probably no easier to remove than a rivetted link.

I clean my chain on both sides by a liberal spray of paraffin and paper cloths. Then a spray with gear oil.

Did have a chain oiler fitted but I have removed it and think I will revert to my previous method.

Edited February 28, 2022 by MatBin

[MatBin 5,102]

6 hours ago, davebike said:

I due to do this next week

I always rivet on over 40 bhp 

Years ago I had a warning from my insurers that they regarded this as the safe limmit for clip links followling advice from I think DID 

Back in the 1970's when  I started in the trade failed clip links were common what the cause was I not sure but I am just carefull

What you do on your bike is unlightly to be an issue  What I do as aprofesional or supply parts for could be an issue

 

Given its a DID chain and split link that I purchased made specifically for the NC I think it's probably ok and I suspect 40bhp is a very conservative limit unless one revs the nuts off the bike and then drops the clutch in an attempt to spin the rear wheel, not so easy on a DCT bike

[Slowboy 20,596]

Riveting a chain is a doddle with the right tool. On a 520 chain, the riveted head diameter, from memory, is 7.4 to 7.5 mm although I’d have to look that up to be totally sure. The rivet is shaped to deform such a specific head diameter will give the right compression. 
 

A vernier calliper would be sufficiently accurate.

 

Anything else is guesswork 😁 

[Steve Case 957]

17 hours ago, slowboy said:

Riveting a chain is a doddle with the right tool. On a 520 chain, the riveted head diameter, from memory, is 7.4 to 7.5 mm although I’d have to look that up to be totally sure. The rivet is shaped to deform such a specific head diameter will give the right compression. 
 

A vernier calliper would be sufficiently accurate.

 

Anything else is guesswork 😁 

That is very specific and a press certainly doesn't measure the head diameter, but it does give me a thought that if the torque to achieve the right compression was found it would be subsequently quicker to use a torque wrench.

[Andy m 23,656]

Torque introduces a host of other factors. The tolerance on rivet hardness, the fit to the tool, anything you can introduce between tool and rivet, the calibration of the wrench.... 

 

If you want to use torque, redesign the link to include a thread, do away with the whole medieval blacksmithing stuff. 

 

Andy 

[Steve Case 957]

OK, just tighten the rivet tool until it feels good then leave it.

[Grumpy old man 4,682]

16 minutes ago, Steve Case said:

OK, just tighten the rivet tool until it feels good then leave it.

Just use a spring link!

[Steve Case 957]

Yeah I heard they were 119% better than rivet links one of my friends, mates, neighbours told me! And he was a denstist so knew his high speed rotating machinery!

[fj_stuart 4,760]

Here's a old saying (that I just made up) "There are two types of biker - those that use spring links and those who've had a spring link fail on them".

[DCTPaul 629]

And the Spring Link Lovers Mantra!

 

"Those that use spring links fitted correctly... with simple tools, 

And those that have tried to rivet a link with center punch, G clamp or something and ended up not riveting and the chain whipping off up the road or compressing too much that the link wont move freely or having a horendus tight spot..."

Edited March 1, 2022 by DCTPaul

[Steve Case 957]

15 hours ago, fj_stuart said:

Here's a old saying (that I just made up) "There are two types of biker - those that use spring links and those who've had a spring link fail on them".

That's very "no one expects the spanish inquisition, we have 3 rules.... no sorry thats 4 rules!"

[PNE 96]

Some advice please.

 

Just split my chain today using the sealey kit mentioned in the video below. Grinded the mushroomed head off one of the pins first with a grinder as per instructions and was a piece of cake. My question is when I took the front sprocket off the splined shaft there was rust discoloration on the sprocket/shaft splines and washer. It was really dry, no oil or grease anywhere. On reassembly do I need to use anything and if so what?.

 

Delboy in the video below explains very clearly how to rivet the links on a new chain and that's the way I'll be doing mine. No clips for me.😁

 

 

[Andy m 23,656]

Honda never grease anything. 

 

Personally I'd give the splined shaft the lightest smear of general purpose grease just to keep the rust down. A cosmetic thing only and probably a waste of grease, but it looks like the right thing to do. The shaft is much harder than the sprocket (which is a loose fit), so as long as the washer and bolt are fitted both will get to their expected lifespan. 

 

Andy 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Andy m