Glad I check tyre pressures weekly

[Andy m 23,544]

13 hours ago, Xactly said:

All-in-all an unnecessary PITA to pander to people too dumb to sense tyre deflation and too lazy to check 

On a tanker carrying tons of aviation fuel that has 14 to 20 tyres it makes a lot more sense. As well as under inflation it can detect brakes and bearings running hot, suspension failures and worn treads before something explodes, takes out the mudwing and an overtaking bike with the shrapnel and then causes the fake highways plod to close the motorway for a day while they fill in forms. Going round with a gauge has just never happened, it's a horrible job and a source of conflict between drivers and fleet managers ("not my job", "can't do anything about it", "just an excuse not to work" etc.) 

 

Once the legislation kicks in the fleets will pay for the systems in tyres and mud wings in about a year, the country will be better off by three or four major road closures and many minor ones per year and we'll save a life sometime in the first five years, most likely a motorcyclist, pedestrian or bicyclist. 

 

Cars do less damage when the failure occurs, but the technology exists and drivers are becoming users, so not taking up the opportunity was never going to happen. Bikes will get it because it will become the norm and you've only to look at chains to see how car practices seep through. 

 

I would be much happier if they'd apply the legislation to caravans and car towed trailers. 

 

I find Honda's diagnosis of the tyre difference odd. An indirect system using the ABS to detect tyre pressure changes does not meet current legislation, a direct system can just be set to a pressure and trigger point. I'm feeling they changed the tyre because the black box is scary and the MD keeps the computer locked up until he wants to play solitaire. 

 

Andy 

[Slowboy 20,506]

14 hours ago, Xactly said:

I detest TPMS on my car too. False positives on the last two, causing angst for no reason. Tyre fitter wrecked sensor on my daughter’s car, she was compensated. Honda unable to resolve issue on my friends Honda CRV; turned out to be mismatched tyres of same make on each axle but 4 wheel drive version of tyre apparently has slightly larger circumference. All-in-all an unnecessary PITA to pander to people too dumb to sense tyre deflation and too lazy to check tyre pressures using cheap but accurate pencil type pressure gauge at home with cold tyres (as opposed to driving to use garage air line, which are notoriously inaccurate and the tyres are warm anyway). Does nobody take responsibility for anything these days? Rant over.

Every step forward in safety technology has its supporters and detractors. The automatic gearbox was derided as only for those unable or unwilling to learn to drive properly, Seat belts were derided as only for those unwilling to be thrown from a vehicle in a crash. Helmets were derided as against my freedums. ABS was derided as a system that was only for those too lazy or unwilling to learn to brake properly. Traction control was derided as a system only for those too unwilling or unable to apply the throttle properly (even said that one myself, you live and learn). Airbags were derided as only for those not capable of…..

And so it goes on. Yet I find all of these systems have made significant contributions to safety on our roads, survivability of crashes and prevention of mistakes becoming an incident. Most have not detracted from the fun of driving.

Why have they done that, because the meat sacks in the main seat are not as capable as they often believe they are, me included.
Me, I’m happy enough my car has all of these systems and more. I’m happy one of my bikes has ABS. I’m careful with how I ride on the bike which has none of these. I check tyres, pressures oil and so on regularly. I use a gauge if I need to and don’t where I don’t. Technology moves on, and so do we.😁 More of us benefit than do not, in my opinion. 😜

[Xactly 5,425]

42 minutes ago, Andy m said:

On a tanker carrying tons of aviation fuel that has 14 to 20 tyres it makes a lot more sense. As well as under inflation it can detect brakes and bearings running hot, suspension failures and worn treads before something explodes, takes out the mudwing and an overtaking bike with the shrapnel and then causes the fake highways plod to close the motorway for a day while they fill in forms. Going round with a gauge has just never happened, it's a horrible job and a source of conflict between drivers and fleet managers ("not my job", "can't do anything about it", "just an excuse not to work" etc.) 

 

Once the legislation kicks in the fleets will pay for the systems in tyres and mud wings in about a year, the country will be better off by three or four major road closures and many minor ones per year and we'll save a life sometime in the first five years, most likely a motorcyclist, pedestrian or bicyclist. 

 

Cars do less damage when the failure occurs, but the technology exists and drivers are becoming users, so not taking up the opportunity was never going to happen. Bikes will get it because it will become the norm and you've only to look at chains to see how car practices seep through. 

 

I would be much happier if they'd apply the legislation to caravans and car towed trailers. 

 

I find Honda's diagnosis of the tyre difference odd. An indirect system using the ABS to detect tyre pressure changes does not meet current legislation, a direct system can just be set to a pressure and trigger point. I'm feeling they changed the tyre because the black box is scary and the MD keeps the computer locked up until he wants to play solitaire. 

 

Andy 

No problem with lorries; an HGV driver can hardly be expected to detect when a tyre has deflated. That said in the USA they have a cheat anyway (as my friend discovered in researching the issue he had with his CRV), which suggests that the system is perhaps not as good as it should be.

I’ve never subscribed to the “If it saves one life….” argument. It’s just a means of trying to control people.

I’m not against progress per se eg auto gearboxes, DCT when it’s optional, and other initiatives to cut emissions are justified if they are sensible rather than knee-jerk, box ticking initiatives. I just take exception to dumbing down everything. Driving/ riding is a privilege; in my view that comes with responsibility, an issue currently being wrestled with in relation to AI driving, especially level 5.

[jeremyr62 2,560]

Of the bike related safety improvements in the recent past, ABS is the only one I really value. However I don't change my riding style if the bike doesn't have it. 

[Xactly 5,425]

2 hours ago, jeremyr62 said:

Of the bike related safety improvements in the recent past, ABS is the only one I really value. However I don't change my riding style if the bike doesn't have it. 

Me too; I find it never activates. I remember reading all the pros and cons about ABS in the eighties. A major concern then was that riders would rely on it, developing no skill of their own. Great until it fails - BMW anyone?

[dave 966]

Twice ABS has saved me, once spraining my wrist with the juddering.

That's the only time it's activated on any of my bikes this century.

Edited May 5, 2022 by dave
word missing

[BackMarker 170]

I like an analog pencil-type gauge, at least you can interpolate between 1psi markings... my digital gauge is only accurate to the nearest 0.5psi.

 

I check them often, especially after changes in atmospheric temperature & pressure... dunno if that makes much odds?

 

At hot summer race meetings, they would advise us to lower pressures, as standard pressure, set on a cold tyre, would be too high on hot tarmac with hot brakes heating up the wheels & tyres, and off people would slide...

 

My car once showed a tyre pressure warning: I was so surprised I stopped and counted the wheels. I didn't even know it had a monitoring system. Drove home at sensible speeds, then checked the pressures cold: no problem. I can only surmise, a pot-hole in a farm track set off the "rolling circumference" warning. Never happened since...

 

 

[fred_jb 10,265]

I don't see why anyone would object to a bike having tyre pressure monitoring.  I have had bikes where it was bundled in with other options and was happy to have it.  It was a separate expensive option on my Triumph so didn't specify it, but would have liked it.

 

It's all very well checking your pressures weekly or even before you set off on a journey, but all that tells you is that they were OK at the time you checked. It doesn't help if you start leaking air mid-journey for whatever reason.

 

You are then relying on detecting the loss of pressure through the seat of the pants before it becomes dangerous.  I know from experience that low pressure is not necessarily obvious when trundling around at low speed, for example in town, but might rapidly become dangerous as soon as you speed up and get into the twisties.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by fred_jb

[ChrisCB 6,672]

Agree with @fred_jb 100%. I like the convenience of getting a pressure reading as I push the bike out of the garage but still do tyre check, chain, oil etc. It's also interesting seeing pressure difference when the tyres warm up and have adjusted the base setting to suit my needs. Those tyre pressure stick gauges aren't very accurate unless you're getting them calibrated every six months (unlikely) and every time you check the pressure you lose a bit of air anyway.

[Andy m 23,544]

37 minutes ago, fred_jb said:

I don't see why anyone would object to a bike having tyre pressure monitoring.  

Bits of Chinese tat wobbling about on the end of the Schrader valve tube I would bin along with bits of painted pencil gauge, magic eyes etc. 

 

Once you have it, it needs to work. BMW seem to have sourced what look like perfectly normal car sensors and made them unreliable on bikes. I suspect they turned the baud rate up on the "more is better" principle and forgot the receiver is mounted in a pretty good Faraday cage not hung underneath. A low baud rate is the radio equivalent of talking slowly and loudly, exactly what is needed on a bike. "Underdeveloped and underspecced" is probably the title of the best selling bike design manual. 

 

Then you need to educate the workforce. Tyre fitters are not generally employed for their knowledge of electronics and radio reception. They'll often bin the little plastic tile that their two-yard lever reduces to splinters and not tell anyone. We'll then usually go for the full exorcism of the black demon box (best done with fire) rather than looking for simple explanations. 

 

Riders are generally over protective of machinery and ultra conservative as a result. There is nothing like a little yellow tyre symbol to get the toddlers broken toy reaction followed by "I don't want no stinking....wah wah... ". 

 

It isn't mandatory yet. 

 

A dealer will see the TMPS light on as a huge $ sign when selling him the bike or trying to claim on the warranty. 

 

Once it's standard fit by mandate, everyone will have to just get on with it, then it'll work. 

 

Andy 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Andy m

[fred_jb 10,265]

22 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Bits of Chinese tat wobbling about on the end of the Schrader valve tube I would bin along with bits of painted pencil gauge, magic eyes etc. 

 

Once you have it, it needs to work. BMW seem to have sourced what look like perfectly normal car sensors and made them unreliable on bikes. I suspect they turned the baud rate up on the "more is better" principle and forgot the receiver is mounted in a pretty good Faraday cage not hung underneath. A low baud rate is the radio equivalent of talking slowly and loudly, exactly what is needed on a bike. "Underdeveloped and underspecced" is probably the title of the best selling bike design manual. 

 

Then you need to educate the workforce. Tyre fitters are not generally employed for their knowledge of electronics and radio reception. They'll often bin the little plastic tile that their two-yard lever reduces to splinters and not tell anyone. We'll then usually go for the full exorcism of the black demon box (best done with fire) rather than looking for simple explanations. 

 

Riders are generally over protective of machinery and ultra conservative as a result. There is nothing like a little yellow tyre symbol to get the toddlers broken toy reaction followed by "I don't want no stinking....wah wah... ". 

 

It isn't mandatory yet. 

 

A dealer will see the TMPS light on as a huge $ sign when selling him the bike or trying to claim on the warranty. 

 

Once it's standard fit by mandate, everyone will have to just get on with it, then it'll work. 

 

Andy 

 

I had a problem on one of my BMWs where the front sensor would go missing.  Sorted by being replaced under warranty.  They also run out of battery eventually though I believe there are unofficial fixes to replace the batteries and avoid having to replace the whole sensor.  Regarding the education point - I agree. I always made sure that I told tyre fitters that I had working pressure sensors on the bike and that I expected them to still be working once the new tyres were fitted!