Front Axle / wheel nut seized?

[Natlas 56]

I'm trying to remove my front wheel so I can get the tyre changed but cannot loosen the front axle. I assume it is not left hand thread as there is no mention of that in the manual.

Is it just ridiculously tight? The book says it should be 74Nm which should be manageable. It's coming up to 5 yrs old and this is probably the first time anyone has tried to move it.

 

[Trev 18,693]

2 minutes ago, Natlas said:

I'm trying to remove my front wheel so I can get the tyre changed but cannot loosen the front axle. I assume it is not left hand thread as there is no mention of that in the manual.

Is it just ridiculously tight? The book says it should be 74Nm which should be manageable. It's coming up to 5 yrs old and this is probably the first time anyone has tried to move it.

 

Unless it's super low mileage I would be surprised if it's the first time it's been removed and wheel nuts and spindles rarely seize unless badly neglected.

Are you sure there's not an axle clamp bolt or bolts to loosen? Sorry can't recall the fork design on the NC (it was many bikes ago) but quite often there are small bolts, usually 10 or 12mm heads, to loosen at the bottom of the fork leg.

Failing that, loads and loads of penetrating oil (wd40 if you don't have any) and leave over night and give it a go then.

 

[Natlas 56]

Pinch bolt is loose. Just saw a Youtube vid where the guy said they are very tight when you first undo them.

[Trev 18,693]

Time for a long extension bar and a bit of harumpppppphhhh

good luck 🙏

 

 

 

[shiggsy 529]

If it wasnt greased and it's not been out in 5 years then it sounds like its siezed up.  Need to keep adding release fluid and harumphing.

[Andy m 23,546]

Yep, 74 foot-gorillas is the dealer torque spec and chances are that's who fitted it.

 

Release fluid and the windy gun if you have one, release spray and a bar if you don't. 

 

Grease and no more force than you can apply with a foot long socket bar to put it back. Torquing something held by pinch bolts is just silliness for the tool porn fetishists.

 

Andy

[Xactly 5,432]

…and no, it’s not l/h thread

[Natlas 56]

Some penetrating fluid, a proper hex socket and a good impact driver and I'm pleased to say the axle is now undone and new tyre fitted. As Andy said, there will be grease and moderate force only when replacing. Thanks for the comments.

[Trev 18,693]

I do like a happy ending 

[fj_stuart 4,753]

Axle nuts do tend to have large torque settings. My FJ's rear axle nut is quoted as 155 Nm (112 ft lb) and it's old enough to have a split pin so it can't loosen accidently. As Andy says I ignore the book and give it a reasonable tighten with a foot long ratchet.

[shiggsy 529]

I thought the torque setting was for protecting the bearings.

[Andy m 23,546]

I think it's a book figure. ( @Freeroader and a few other proper engineers will know). Big thread, big torque to wedge the thread angles together. Once it bottoms and the clamp goes in that's it though, bearings fixed as far as they can. I guess if you did it up with two fingers then applied the clamp there might be an extra fraction of nothing in the bearing float (pitch of the thread x whatever movement the torque wrench applies after it stopped, so maybe a thou or two?).

 

A spec that says "turn until it stops with a foot long bar" will be pooh-pooh'd by the theoreticians. Real world people know the torque wrench is mostly just a bar with numbers because the calibration certificate was signed by Newtons grandad and someone might have to undo it with the tool kit carried on the bike. In a factory, fair enough, you want them all the same and Bluetooth'd electric tools are the norm because factory workers will otherwise make it up as they go along just because after the first thousand times it gets boring.

 

Andy

[dave 969]

On 16/02/2023 at 18:57, Andy m said:

 

Grease and no more force than you can apply with a foot long socket bar to put it back. Torquing something held by pinch bolts is just silliness for the tool porn fetishists.

 

Andy

 just nip up your nuts.

Edited February 18, 2023 by dave

[Steve Case 955]

Hah Andy, your forgetting peeps who do up the nuts/bolts/screws with a torque wrench then 'tweak' them to make sure sure...

[punwin 1]

I struggled with front wheel spindle removal when I bought my 2019X with 30k miles - the spindle had been overtightened, was a bit dry and corroded (despite main dealer FSH) and didn't want to come out despite liberal soakings with penetrating oil and a long breaker bar.  A large part of the problem was not having the right tool or a  17mm hex socket.  I found a great workaround using one of the long M10 sleeve nuts used to join screwed/threaded rods together.  17mm across the flats and about 30mm or so long so slips right in to the socket in the spindle and sticks out far enough so you can get a regular 17mm socket, ring, or other spanner on to give it some welly!  Best of all, they'll only cost you a pound or so, and take up next to no space in your toolkit.

[Slowboy 20,506]

On 17/02/2023 at 18:46, fj_stuart said:

Axle nuts do tend to have large torque settings. My FJ's rear axle nut is quoted as 155 Nm (112 ft lb) and it's old enough to have a split pin so it can't loosen accidently. As Andy says I ignore the book and give it a reasonable tighten with a foot long ratchet.

And Ooo how the accountants laughed when they mandated a 6” long spanner in the tool kit to undo it……🤨😁

[listener 11,189]

"Wadyamean, I did it up too tight?"

 

[Xactly 5,432]

Some mechanics/previous owners eh?

[FurstyFerret 65]

On 16/02/2023 at 17:47, Natlas said:

I'm trying to remove my front wheel so I can get the tyre changed but cannot loosen the front axle. I assume it is not left hand thread as there is no mention of that in the manual.

Is it just ridiculously tight? The book says it should be 74Nm which should be manageable. It's coming up to 5 yrs old and this is probably the first time anyone has tried to move it.

 

Same issue though in my case was definitely caused by a spanner monkey with an impact driver set to 11. Alternate with WD-40 and a breaker bar. It won't sound good coming loose though.

[Steve Case 955]

I had the same problem on my Daytona front sprocket however much leverage I used it would not budge.

I hired an 18V impact gun and bought an impact socket to fit, sat down by said sprocket thinking "this may take a while"...BRAAAAP and it was off.

 

I guarantee it was down up by a moron with a windy gun, and for a price I won't name the dealership

[Slowboy 20,506]

1 hour ago, Steve Case said:

I had the same problem on my Daytona front sprocket however much leverage I used it would not budge.

I hired an 18V impact gun and bought an impact socket to fit, sat down by said sprocket thinking "this may take a while"...BRAAAAP and it was off.

 

I guarantee it was down up by a moron with a windy gun, and for a price I won't name the dealership

Don’t know if yours was the same as my Daytona 1000 (1991 model) but the specified torque for the front sprocket was 145 ftlb🤨.

 

I have a 450 ftlb windy hammer that is only used for removal duties….😎.

 

Its known as “Arnie the shifter” in my gaff.😁

[Steve Case 955]

Nope, 955 (& 595) much more sensible 132nm.

 

Bit high I'd say but if I use 3m of leverage and it won't shift it ain't 132nm!

[Steve Case 955]

Those wheel bearing are poss toast!

[Andy131 732]

The answer to stubborn bolts / nuts is a 3/4" socket set and a 10ft scaffold tube - it'll either move or shear, done plenty of both.

That's 254 pounds x 10ft, roughly 3,400Nm.

 

[john mackay 714]

in all the years I've'd worked on my own bikes(inc cars) I've never used a torque wrench.

I've taken the front wheel spindle out etc to get my fork's re chrome and re assemble  not using a torque wrench.

if you lube the thread's then the torque wrench is no good because you will over tightened the bolt etc.

I usually just nip up the bolt or nut but  by a spanner hands on the straight bit so no heavy leaverage is used.

once it is nipped up then I grab the end of the spanner or  socket wrench ..either 1/4 -1/2 a full turn.

never had a problem with this method.