Oil and filter change

[MatBin 5,099]

Drained the sump via the bolt and the oil was a little dirty (1500 miles and 12 months since last change). Took the oil filter off and what drained out looked like virtually new oil, took the DCT filter out, ditto virtually clean oil.

So, either the oil isn't going through the main filter or it's doing a great job supplying clean oil downstream.

Any thoughts?

[Slowboy 20,536]

4 hours ago, MatBin said:

Drained the sump via the bolt and the oil was a little dirty (1500 miles and 12 months since last change). Took the oil filter off and what drained out looked like virtually new oil, took the DCT filter out, ditto virtually clean oil.

So, either the oil isn't going through the main filter or it's doing a great job supplying clean oil downstream.

Any thoughts?

The filters work.

[Andy m 23,593]

And, it's new oil, not enough miles to justify wearing out the thread on the drain plug, still probably good for another 10000.

 

Andy

[Trev 18,743]

I don't bother with annual oil & filter changes on any of my bikes that only cover a couple of thousand miles a year, like Andy says, not worth troubling the drain plug or spending the time & money.

[MatBin 5,099]

4 hours ago, Andy m said:

And, it's new oil, not enough miles to justify wearing out the thread on the drain plug, still probably good for another 10000.

 

Andy

Agree, BUT,years ago I had a filter break up and throw bits of itself down the crankshaft oilways and cause a seized engine (CX 500). The only thing I could think of that may have caused it was I didn't use my bike during the winter that year, or, possibly it was a rogue filter in a bandit box, bought from a Honda dealer, there was a fair bit of that going on in the 80's.

So now I am paranoid, I don't expect anyone else to follow my insecurities and I would advise as you have but a few quid for oil and filter is for me a lot less hassle and a lot more peace of mind than another seized motor. I know I am being ridiculous.

1 hour ago, Trev said:

I don't bother with annual oil & filter changes on any of my bikes that only cover a couple of thousand miles a year, like Andy says, not worth troubling the drain plug or spending the time & money.

See reply to Andy.

[davebike 943]

I sorrey Andy disagree semi synth really is not good having been in a used bike for a year!

Why the oil from the sump look the worst   the sump is designed to collect contamanents that do not get to the filters and is designet to flush them out on graining

[Mike E. 71]

I just purchased a 750x bike, and the dealer said to use motrex semisynthetic 10-30 oil. I looked on line, and 4 litres delivered cost just 3pence shy of £75.00 ,

whereas 5 litres of the same grade of semisynthetic (for Honda) by smith & allan costs £24.99 . Shurely there can't be any difference other than a bit of marketing hype and a fancy label ?

 

What do others here use for engine oil changes in their nc750 bikes ?

Edited July 18, 2023 by Mike E.
afterthought

[Andy m 23,593]

Oil is like washing powder. It meets a standard, in the case of the oil 10W30. The standard does not change unless some committee deep in the Over Empire's burocracy has twenty years to spare*.

 

Your only question is do you believe the manufacturer really did the test to the standard? Castrol did, it's worth ten quid a litre,  they'd go bust if the bubble ever burst and costs less than 1p a litre. Sum-Yung-Gi Inc. didn't. They sell used chip fat, get a chap to knock up certs using Inkscape, make 2p profit per litre, will eventually go bust to defraud their suppliers and work in a culture where there no morals. 

 

They can all claim their products include added unobtanium for added zing and sparkle, it has nothing to do with the standard.

 

I use any oil I recognise the brand of. Smith & Allen is new to me. An old company that never got into fancy marketing like Miller's, or a front company for Sum-Yung-Gi?

 

*I'm on one! A working group on EV communication standards, it's unbelievably slow and pointless but the main protagonists earn a fantastic standard of living by dragging them out. Really puts the Con into consultant when they get expenses for arguing where the commas go.

 

Andy

Edited July 18, 2023 by Andy m

[Slowboy 20,536]

2 hours ago, Mike E. said:

I just purchased a 750x bike, and the dealer said to use motrex semisynthetic 10-30 oil. I looked on line, and 4 litres delivered cost just 3pence shy of £75.00 ,

whereas 5 litres of the same grade of semisynthetic (for Honda) by smith & allan costs £24.99 . Shurely there can't be any difference other than a bit of marketing hype and a fancy label ?

 

What do others here use for engine oil changes in their nc750 bikes ?

I remember people using this logic to rationalise buying a Lada or a Moskovich.….

 

I always buy a recognised brand, these days usually Castrol for no other reason that it’s what the local supplier I use supplies, although I’m happy with Motul and Mobil along with a few others. For specialist stuff like no sulphur gear oil or mono grades I tend to use Morris Oils as this is where they built their reputation.
 

Other options are available.😁

[Andy m 23,593]

57 minutes ago, Freeroader said:

I remember people using this logic to rationalise buying a Lada or ...

Never had a Moscovitch, but Lada's and Skoda's were brilliant.

 

No weight and designed to be maintained by someone who drinks more anti-freeze than the vehicle. Don't think you could fault them if you wanted cheap transport and could turn a spanner. 

 

Andy

[Taileron 600]

1 hour ago, Freeroader said:

 I tend to use Morris Oils as this is where they built their reputation.
 

I was an apprentice at Morris’s prior to my current career. You could eat your dinner off the floor in the engineering shop, the guy who ran the place ruled with a rod of iron, literally. Clean and tidy, everything in its place. A proper old school company with old school morals. Produce a good product, sell it at the right price, don’t try to rip people off etc. Stood me in good stead before I became an Aircraft Technician. 

[Xactly 5,438]

2 hours ago, Andy m said:

Never had a Moscovitch, but Lada's and Skoda's were brilliant.

 

No weight and designed to be maintained by someone who drinks more anti-freeze than the vehicle. Don't think you could fault them if you wanted cheap transport and could turn a spanner. 

 

Andy

I would say that my Lada weighed a helluva lot. They used to boast about having thicker than average metal for the bodywork. Recirculating ball steering reinforced the tank driving sensation. Never broke down, to be fair. It depreciated like falling off a cliff. Good toolkit though, then again vehicles so equipped usually need them. Skodas were a lot better. Quirky, but consistent rally winners. The Czechs were good engineers. At the time Russians copied some other country’s design and weren’t good at it. 

[steeve139 98]

Use a recognised brand of 10w30, with a JASO MA or MA2 rating - 'alfords is good.  If you are going to get on your knees yourself to change the oil, you might as well change the filter as well - use a hiflo HF204RC - the 17mm hex end will help you torque it on and get it off later.  Internally, the hf204 and hf204rc are identical.

 

If you have the DCT version, you only need to change the DCT oil filter every 16000 miles - but once again while you are on your knees you might as well change the DCT filter - use a hiflo cartridge.  You will pay as much for the o-ring as you will for the filter, but you will be saving so much on labour AND materials, that changing the DCT filter and its o-ring is a no-brainer.  Also that swap is easy.  Torque the 2 M5 bolts as per standard recommendation for M5 bolts - I just tightened mine by hand using commonsense.

 

On my Forza750, I changed my air filter at 16000 miles and it was very dirty, so now I am changing the air filter every 8000 miles.  The swap itself is simple enough, and by buying an air filter meant for an ADV150 from that auction website, I can get it for less than £20.  And then I don't mind doing it more often than Honda recommend.

 

Oil and filters - easy to do, cheap if using pattern parts, so why not do it?

[RC166 696]

I defo wouldn’t use torque wrench to tighten oil filter. Unless Honda have changed the figure, it’s ridiculous, can’t remember what, but it is daft. Just tighten by hand, even then don’t do your Incredible Hulk impersonation. 

[Mike E. 71]

3 hours ago, steeve139 said:

Use a recognised brand of 10w30, with a JASO MA or MA2 rating - 'alfords is good.  If you are going to get on your knees yourself to change the oil, you might as well change the filter as well - use a hiflo HF204RC - the 17mm hex end will help you torque it on and get it off later.  Internally, the hf204 and hf204rc are identical.

 

If you have the DCT version, you only need to change the DCT oil filter every 16000 miles - but once again while you are on your knees you might as well change the DCT filter - use a hiflo cartridge.  You will pay as much for the o-ring as you will for the filter, but you will be saving so much on labour AND materials, that changing the DCT filter and its o-ring is a no-brainer.  Also that swap is easy.  Torque the 2 M5 bolts as per standard recommendation for M5 bolts - I just tightened mine by hand using commonsense.

 

On my Forza750, I changed my air filter at 16000 miles and it was very dirty, so now I am changing the air filter every 8000 miles.  The swap itself is simple enough, and by buying an air filter meant for an ADV150 from that auction website, I can get it for less than £20.  And then I don't mind doing it more often than Honda recommend.

 

Oil and filters - easy to do, cheap if using pattern parts, so why not do it?

Yeah, I've always done my own service work on my bikes & vehicles, except where computers are involved, and do my oil changes sooner than what would be scheduled. The smith & allan brand of oil I previously mentioned has JASO and MA2 on the label. I use their 2-stroke oil for my BSA Bantam and haven't had any issues. Thanks for the tip's and filter information. 

[Andy m 23,593]

13 hours ago, Xactly said:

I would say that my Lada weighed a helluva lot. They used to boast about having thicker than average metal for the bodywork. ........... At the time Russians copied some other country’s design and weren’t good at it. 

Maybe I'm comparing to modern cars? At the time I passed my test they Old Boy and Girl had a Lada Samara and Fiat Panda (with cloth roof). Both much nicer to drive than modern cars. Probably just less weighed down with stuff you don't need. The mid engined Skoda he had later was better still. Not sure who designed the Samara? Definitely made for the market. We had to change the reversing light switch. The manual didn't mess, "Oil will pour out, swap quickly, tip the oil you catch back in the top, check the level...."

 

12 hours ago, RC166 said:

I defo wouldn’t use torque wrench to tighten oil filter. Unless Honda have changed the figure, it’s ridiculous, can’t remember what, but it is daft. Just tighten by hand, even then don’t do your Incredible Hulk impersonation. 

+1, just a bar with numbers once the cert is out of date

 

9 hours ago, Mike E. said:

Yeah, I've always done my own service work on my bikes & vehicles, except where computers are involved, and do my oil changes sooner than what would be scheduled. The smith & allan brand of oil I previously mentioned has JASO and MA2 on the label. I use their 2-stroke oil for my BSA Bantam and haven't had any issues. Thanks for the tip's and filter information. 

One to add to my list of trusted suppliers.👍

 

An ODR reader is the easiest tool in the world to use. Literally tells you where to look. Way more civilised than the guess, swap, guess again approach with old stuff.

 

I wouldn't rely on certificates. I've worked with Chinese suppliers. I asked one to provide a food standard certificate. They did, by return e-mail, for a batch raw iron castings. 😡. This was the same supplier who's x-ray certs had the same coffee cup stain every single time. Go with the supplier you know can be trusted not to lie.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

[Xactly 5,438]

I don’t know about the Samara. The one I had was a 1200cc, based on a Fiat. The Polska Fiat was similar. They still appear in films in East Europe. The taxis were the 1300 Riva versions when we moved to Bucks in 1984. They didn’t last long. The Niva 4x4 is well regarded by some. Mine 1200 was a bit like a Consul or other fifties car to drive.

[Mike E. 71]

6 minutes ago, Andy m said:

One to add to my list of trusted suppliers.👍

 

An ODR reader is the easiest tool in the world to use. Literally tells you where to look. Way more civilised than the guess, swap, guess again approach with old stuff.

 

I wouldn't rely on certificates. I've worked with Chinese suppliers. I asked one to provide a food standard certificate. They did, by return e-mail, for a batch raw iron castings. 😡. This was the same supplier who's x-ray certs had the same coffee cup stain every single time. Go with the supplier you know can be trusted not to lie.

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

Thanks. Life is not what it use to be regarding trust in products, is it.

[Mike E. 71]

For what its worth, I just read an article by a Luke Mitchell, posted on the " Slash Gear " website June 7, 2023 ; Titled -  "The 10 Best Oil Brands In The World "

Food for thought at least.

[John_1 18]

Halfords sell Castrol fully synthetic 10w/30 motorcycle oil for just under £46 for four litres 

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/motorcycling/oils/castrol-power-1-racing-4t-10w%2F30-motorcycle-engine-oil---4ltr-966168.html

 

John

[Xactly 5,438]

16 hours ago, Mike E. said:

Yeah, I've always done my own service work on my bikes & vehicles, except where computers are involved, and do my oil changes sooner than what would be scheduled. The smith & allan brand of oil I previously mentioned has JASO and MA2 on the label. I use their 2-stroke oil for my BSA Bantam and haven't had any issues. Thanks for the tip's and filter information. 

I have a lot of friends with classic bikes. Many also have a modern one (or two , or three). The owners of these classic bikes are often skilled engineers, toolmakers or similar and don't bat an eyelid at stripping and rebuilding engines, gearboxes, clutches, you name it. Yet when it comes to modern bikes they won't touch them, at least not the fuelling or ignition. I really don't understand it. It's not difficult. Whilst in some respects, having a foot in both camps, I prefer the simplicity of maintaining classic bikes, overall I prefer the comparative ease of servicing modern bikes. to me it is much quicker to remap fuelling on an EFI bike than it is to mess around by trial and error on a carb bike. or to try to keep in synch a couple or more carbs, not to mention keep the jets from clogging up with the residue of passes for fuel these days. The exception to this is a single cylinder bike with one carb and a single set of points (or a twin with wasted spark and a single set of points). Adjusting these is simple and they don't often need attention. That said Euro V has made it harder to do it yourself, mainly because of the requirement to make the EFI system non-adjustable by unauthorised people. I have a feeling that I won't bother buying a Euro 6 model, when that is launched. BTW I don't think Bantams are particularly fussy what they run on. My brother's first field bike 125 D1 used to get all sorts chucked into the tannin vague measures and never seized. It did smoke a bit but we didn't bother much about that 55 years ago....Come to think of it the easiest bikes I've ever owned service-wise were my non-Japanese two-strokes: Jawa 350, CZ 125 and MZ 250. All were very accessible, easy to do and seldom needed adjusting. A bit boring really..

[steeve139 98]

Hi,

 

Torque wrench on an oil filter?  I read the Honda torque recommendation, set that on my AC Delco torque adaptor.  Then I tightened the oil filter as tight as I dared.  And it didn't reach the level stated by Honda - so I just left it at some unspecified lower torque.  And it was fine.

 

The same thing happened with the sump plug.  Neither reached the Honda specified torque, but both have been fine in the 2000 miles I have done since the service.

 

I am pleased that I have the AC Delco torque adaptor and I shall continue to use it - if nothing else to stop me being over-zealous.

 

Putting the oil filter on with the 17mm hexagon head was easier than it would have been if I hadn't had the RC version of the filter.  And I am sure it will be easier to get it off in 6000 miles time.  So I will continue to use the RC version of the oil filter.

 

There's more than one way to kill a cat.....

[Mike E. 71]

3 hours ago, Xactly said:

I have a lot of friends with classic bikes. Many also have a modern one (or two , or three). The owners of these classic bikes are often skilled engineers, toolmakers or similar and don't bat an eyelid at stripping and rebuilding engines, gearboxes, clutches, you name it. Yet when it comes to modern bikes they won't touch them, at least not the fuelling or ignition. I really don't understand it. It's not difficult. Whilst in some respects, having a foot in both camps, I prefer the simplicity of maintaining classic bikes, overall I prefer the comparative ease of servicing modern bikes. to me it is much quicker to remap fuelling on an EFI bike than it is to mess around by trial and error on a carb bike. or to try to keep in synch a couple or more carbs, not to mention keep the jets from clogging up with the residue of passes for fuel these days. The exception to this is a single cylinder bike with one carb and a single set of points (or a twin with wasted spark and a single set of points). Adjusting these is simple and they don't often need attention. That said Euro V has made it harder to do it yourself, mainly because of the requirement to make the EFI system non-adjustable by unauthorised people. I have a feeling that I won't bother buying a Euro 6 model, when that is launched. BTW I don't think Bantams are particularly fussy what they run on. My brother's first field bike 125 D1 used to get all sorts chucked into the tannin vague measures and never seized. It did smoke a bit but we didn't bother much about that 55 years ago....Come to think of it the easiest bikes I've ever owned service-wise were my non-Japanese two-strokes: Jawa 350, CZ 125 and MZ 250. All were very accessible, easy to do and seldom needed adjusting. A bit boring really..

I've been an "amateur" machinist and fabricator for about fifty years, and have a hobby machine shop. I have a good handle on most things mechanical but as far as modern electronics go, I have a friend who can sort those kind of issues out.  

Edited July 19, 2023 by Mike E.

[Mike E. 71]

24 minutes ago, steeve139 said:

Hi,

 

Torque wrench on an oil filter?  I read the Honda torque recommendation, set that on my AC Delco torque adaptor.  Then I tightened the oil filter as tight as I dared.  And it didn't reach the level stated by Honda - so I just left it at some unspecified lower torque.  And it was fine.

 

The same thing happened with the sump plug.  Neither reached the Honda specified torque, but both have been fine in the 2000 miles I have done since the service.

 

I am pleased that I have the AC Delco torque adaptor and I shall continue to use it - if nothing else to stop me being over-zealous.

 

Putting the oil filter on with the 17mm hexagon head was easier than it would have been if I hadn't had the RC version of the filter.  And I am sure it will be easier to get it off in 6000 miles time.  So I will continue to use the RC version of the oil filter.

 

There's more than one way to kill a cat.....

I haven't had the plastic front covers off the bike yet to have a look at the oil filter. As far as oil filter wrenches go, I have a "Channel Lock" brand Slip Joint Oil Filter Plier's that can accommodate just about any size of metal screw on filter. I'd post a photo, but being computer challenged in learning new tricks, I guess I'll have to forgo it for now.