DCT less smooth gear shifting

[Damija 1]

Hello DCT owners. 

I owned a DCT model 2017 for two years. I decided to change for the DCT model 2023 because I heard the DCT gear was improved.

I got and ride the DCT 2023 since four months, everything was fine, smoother gear, a better motorbike! But since the first service at 1000km, I don’t know what the workshop has made but the gear isn’t smooth as before. You can really feel each gear shifting. When the gear is shifting to an upper gear it looks the upper gear is running faster than the previous gear then it results that you feel a kind of hit. The same in shifting to lower gear it is less precise than before. My new DCT 2023 looks like my old DCT 2017 now.

 

After resetting the DCT it is a little bit smoother but it get worst as before quickly.

 

The workshop used the oil 10w30 MA Full synthetic from Honda. I recently changed to 10w40 MA Full synthetic from Honda but nothing changed. I heard that Honda use in factory the oil 10W30 MA semi synthetic. Apparently my DCT 2023 had this oil before the first service then I ordered 4 litres to change it and see if I get the previous smoother gear. I will do the change soon.

 

But I’m not sure it is a matter of the oil only, do sometime faced to this kind of situation?

[Scootabout 2,253]

My non-expert thoughts (I have never even owned a DCT):

There's not much to do at first service, I don't think, except change oils and filters and check bolt tightness & maybe chain. So my first thought would be oil, as you say. Not only wrong grade, but perhaps over-filling. My second thought is some bolts over-tightened. My third is the chain has been over-tightened. 

[Skidt 1,314]

I’d agree with @Scootabout.

Check the chain tension. Too loose or too tight could affect the smoothness of the gear changes. I’d also be tempted to check that it has been evenly adjusted / the alignment marks on the swingarm are the same on both sides. 
Also, I don’t think the standard fitment chains on the NC are the best quality. Be sure to give it a regular clean and lubricate to keep the gear changes as smooth as possible. 
Hope you manage to sort it. 

[SC07NCX 22]

Could be sensor related as a DCT recalibration improves things (for a short while) despite nothing physically changed e.g. some sort of sensor drift over time?  Workshop manual (86 pages on the DCT system!) mentions stuff like EOP sensor on the clutch for example, whatever EOP is.

[davebike 943]

I suspect that the oil change threw out thwe DCT calebration  do a reset and it should return to smooth  I also find too tight a chain has this effect and lots of places do overtighten the chain

[Damija 1]

Thank you all for your answers

 

I need to learn more about the DCT sensors although it’d be strange that Honda brake a sensor during this first service.

Right after having bought this new motorcycle I notice that a chain o-ring went out of the chain, then I contacted the seller to change the chain. When I get back my motorcycle with the new chain it has a noise at 40km/h and 90km/h like if a bearing was broken.

 

Cars have this kind of noise when a bearing of wheel is broken. 
 

Having lost confidence in workshop I decided to change de chain by myself for an DID520vx3 but there was a noise again then I changed all bearings of the rear wheel. Unfortunately the noise is still here (But after having read your answer it is maybe possible that a crew was over-tighten) but regarding your answers of the current topic, the chain, chain tension and other parts are good and doesn’t impact the gear shifting.

 

At the moment I can only suspect the oil or an sensor, except if someone already experienced that gear shifting deterioration and found a solution

[davebike 943]

Sounds like you put a new chain on without changing the sprockets   that would give odd noises at resanalt speeds

Get the bike fulley warm  and do a DCT reset it often needed after an oil change particully with new ish bikes

 

[Damija 1]

I changed the chain because I thought the new chain that Honda installed was creating noise. Sprockets are new, the motorcycle has 2000km only. I also changed bearings inside the wheel but it didn’t solve the issue.

 

I wonder what the workshop did. I’m living in thailand, there is many workshops but all suks. Then I bought tools to make by myself. 
 

but for this noise at 40 and 90km/h, despite changing bearings and chain it didn’t solve it

[outrunner 4,457]

A 2023 bike is still under warranty, so take it to a Honda dealer who should have all the tools and electronic diagnostics to find the fault.

 

Andy.

[cooperli 1]

As you mentioned, you recently changed the oil to a different weight and type. It's possible that the new oil is not compatible with your bike's DCT. You can try changing back to the factory-recommended oil to see if that makes a difference.

[MatBin 5,093]

Have you tried different ride modes, that is D or S1, 2, 3. Does it make any difference, does using the paddles make things better or worse. Are you sure it's coming from the back, some users complain of odd noises from the front tyre. Have you checked tyre pressure, front and back. 

[Damija 1]

On 29/08/2023 at 02:17, outrunner said:

A 2023 bike is still under warranty, so take it to a Honda dealer who should have all the tools and electronic diagnostics to find the fault.

 

Andy.

That’s great advise. I have thought about this already.

It can resolve the issue if you’re in a good country with good knowledge but here I am in Thailand and knowledge and workshop sucks.

I have many exemples but for instance I bring my motorcycle to the shop explaining the problem of gear shifting and they told to me it is because of the exhaust.

The exhaust was the original one from Honda, it was not very funny. And sometime it’s worst when they creat another issue while they are trying to fix the current one..

that’s why I prefer to ask on this forum before do anything with shops or people here..

[Damija 1]

On 30/08/2023 at 14:35, cooperli said:

As you mentioned, you recently changed the oil to a different weight and type. It's possible that the new oil is not compatible with your bike's DCT. You can try changing back to the factory-recommended oil to see if that makes a difference.

Yep that’s interesting. They used the Honda oil 10W40 fully synthetic.

 

🔺I recently changed the oil for Honda oil 10w30 semi synthetic. I can say that the clutch response and better with the semi synthetic, it is a little bit smoother, still not as the first day that I bought this bike but already a bit better.

 

I would definitely chose again semi synthetic next time I change oil.

[Damija 1]

On 05/09/2023 at 00:28, MatBin said:

Have you tried different ride modes, that is D or S1, 2, 3. Does it make any difference, does using the paddles make things better or worse. Are you sure it's coming from the back, some users complain of odd noises from the front tyre. Have you checked tyre pressure, front and back. 

Thanks for these details, tyres pressure is good I checked it plenty of times. This noise appear right after Honda changed the chain. I remember the technician make and strange gestures like if he had made a mistake or forget something it’s seems probable he caused this issue.. He had already cut the new chain too short and replaced for the second time after I complained.. 

 

I have drove in different modes, D, Sport, Rain but the gear shifting isn’t smooth as before too.

But there is not issue when I use the paddle in annual mode.

[Damija 1]

I come back to explain news about my issue.

 

I still have harshly gear shifting and noise appearing at 40 and 90km/h despite I tried everything: Changed oil, changed chain, disassembled and checked the rear  motorcycle's swing arm, checked chain alignment, tyres pressure.

 

I really believe that the technician damaged something when he replaced the chain. That’s why he made a strange gesture like if he forgot something or made a mistake..

 

I have met a guy with an Xadv and saw several comments about the DCT. All talk about the DCT of the nc750x can be sometime archaic, but also say that the DCT of the Africa Twin and NT1100 is smoother ans less archaic in low speed. Then regarding my current issue I am considering to sale my nc750x and purchase an NT1100. I will certainly miss the fabulous storage compartment in the front of the seat but it could be compensate by the gain of comfort form the NT1100.

 

Other possibility is to bring back to Honda dealer here in thailand, and they bring my motorcycle to the importer to check but regarding the catastrophic level of knowledge and lake of ability to make a proper work in thailand, I prefer to avoid to have more troubles from them and purchase a new Nc750x or purchase a NT1100..

( If you’re in thailand avoid the dealer Honda BigWing Rama 3, they caused this issue. Honda BigWing Ramintra or HuaHin look more professional )

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Damija
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[Xactly 5,432]

50 minutes ago, Damija said:

It can resolve the issue if you’re in a good country with good knowledge but here I am in Thailand and knowledge and workshop sucks.

I find it interesting and somewhat ironic that in the country where a bike is actually made knowledge and workshop skills are not great. Hands up who’d pay a bit more for a Japanese-made Honda… The local independent dealer I use has sales d more than once that the Japan-made models, such as the Crossrunner I had, hardly ever give trouble and are certainly of higher quality. Rusty NC exhaust anyone? Paint still on swinging arm?

[Nomad rider 37]

3 hours ago, Xactly said:

I find it interesting and somewhat ironic that in the country where a bike is actually made knowledge and workshop skills are not great. Hands up who’d pay a bit more for a Japanese-made Honda… The local independent dealer I use has sales d more than once that the Japan-made models, such as the Crossrunner I had, hardly ever give trouble and are certainly of higher quality. Rusty NC exhaust anyone? Paint still on swinging arm?

 

The 750X is made in Japan 

[Andy131 737]

It's not just Thailand where some Honda dealers are less knowledgeable than we would like.

Recently bought a used NC750X with DCT gearbox from a dealership in the UK, the gearbox noise is "within acceptable limits" - mmm the demo bike was quiet, the loan bike was quiet, and it's new replacement is quiet.

 

The good news is that the new bike is easier to get on (previously broken hip), has a larger frunk and is quicker.  The jury is out about the new dashboard.

[Skidt 1,314]

One other thing I might be inclined to check………

 

When they did the oil change, did they change the additional DCT oil filter? If so, bearing in mind your concerns about the mechanics skill set, could they have put the DCT filter in the wrong way around? Or the sealing rubber on the wrong side? 
They may not even have changed it at all? Though without looking, I’m not sure if it’s on the 600 mile service schedule or not?
 

A nuisance, but I think i’d want to check that and maybe, for the small expense, buy and fit (correctly) a new DCT oil filter.

 

Best of luck with it. 👍
 

 

[Eddie17 545]

40 minutes ago, Skidt said:

One other thing I might be inclined to check………

 

When they did the oil change, did they change the additional DCT oil filter? If so, bearing in mind your concerns about the mechanics skill set, could they have put the DCT filter in the wrong way around? Or the sealing rubber on the wrong side? 
They may not even have changed it at all? Though without looking, I’m not sure if it’s on the 600 mile service schedule or not?
 

A nuisance, but I think i’d want to check that and maybe, for the small expense, buy and fit (correctly) a new DCT oil filter.

 

Best of luck with it. 👍
 

 

Just got a six month old NC750x DCT. The paper work that came from the dealer does not show the DCT oil filter being changed at the first service which they carried out. The manual shows it should be done at first service schedule, from what I can see.

Its been a long distance buy so going back to the dealer is not an option.Kind of not sure whether to leave it till the next due service or deal with it now.

I do find the bike a bit vibey  compared to a previous NC750x DCT I had. 

[Skidt 1,314]

Yes, just looked at the manual (albeit mine is a 2017) and it states DCT oil filter at 600 Miles and then every 16k miles. 
Bizarrely, it also states oil changes every 8k miles, but the oil filter only every 16k miles. Cant quite see the logic in that? 
Leave old contaminated oil in the old oil filter, to contaminate the fresh stuff as soon as you run the bike. 
For the few extra pounds the filters costs, I’ve chosen to do both the oil filters on mine at each service. 
Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction. 

[EdG 71]

On 09/10/2023 at 22:07, Skidt said:

Yes, just looked at the manual (albeit mine is a 2017) and it states DCT oil filter at 600 Miles and then every 16k miles. 
Bizarrely, it also states oil changes every 8k miles, but the oil filter only every 16k miles. Cant quite see the logic in that? 
Leave old contaminated oil in the old oil filter, to contaminate the fresh stuff as soon as you run the bike. 
For the few extra pounds the filters costs, I’ve chosen to do both the oil filters on mine at each service. 
Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction. 

 

Any contamination in the filter will stay in the filte rather than circulate with the new oil.  That is what the filter is there for.

 

[Skidt 1,314]

Sorry, yes I should have been more specific. I guess what I really meant was the old engine oil that remains in the old oil filter.

Granted, it’s it a huge quantity, but it’s still potentially 9% of the total oil capacity on a manual version.