DCT or not DCT?

[LLUIS 0]

Hello everyone.

I am new here.

I am living and writing this from Barcelona, Catalonia.

Considering buying second hand, one owner 2018 NC750X DCT with 36,000 kms.

I am just wondering about if DCT has any maintenance special issues to be considered?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions and advice.

All the best, sincerely,

LLUÍS.

 

 

[Foxy 4,338]

Hi LLuis,

 

Welcome to the forum, I try to keep out of these technical issues as I just ride my bikes and pay scant attention to what Mr Honda or others recommend, plenty of others will no doubt answer your question in more detail. For my own experience  I have had the DCT since 2017, it has less miles on than yours and apart from  the first service has not been back to a Honda dealer. 

 

I have had no trouble of any sort but I believe the main DCT issues are caused by dirty oil or a weak battery, hence aside from the first service all I have done is change the oil and filters annualy, and the bike has had one new battery.

 

It's a great machine, well capable of two up touring and in over 50 years of riding motorcycles is probably the most practical machine I have owned. The DCT makes it different from other bikes but for me it adds a new level of experience and whilst it might not be for everyone I like it. Perhaps a test ride would be helpful before you make the decision. 

 

Cheers Steve

[Jamesc 3,655]

 @LLUIS

[Skidt 1,305]

Welcome to the forum @LLUIS.

As Foxy has said above, change the oil and both the oil filters (regular & DCT) regularly, keep the battery in good health, put the gearbox into neutral BEFORE you turn the engine off and you should be good.

 

If looking at bikes to buy, in addition to the usual things, I’d be paying particular attention to the following:

 

wheel bearings for play

State of the chain & sprockets - OEM chain is poor quality imho

Any corrosion on the swing arm - probably less of a problem in your climate

whether the DCT oil filter is shown as having been changed at service. Should have at least been done at 16k miles 

 

Best of luck with your search. 

[MatBin 5,085]

Make sure you use the correct oil when it's changed, it's not the same oil as the manual box. In some countries you can get away with the same oil but in some you cannot, so best use the correct one regardless of where you live and ride. Other than that it's virtually the same as the manual variant, possibly chain and sprocket are different too. Welcome along.

[Dan German 819]

55 minutes ago, MatBin said:

Make sure you use the correct oil when it's changed, it's not the same oil as the manual box. In some countries you can get away with the same oil but in some you cannot, so best use the correct one regardless of where you live and ride. Other than that it's virtually the same as the manual variant, possibly chain and sprocket are different too. Welcome along.

The Owner’s Manual recommends the same GN4 10W30 regardless of transmission. The capacities are different, and of course the filter(s), but do other markets have different recommendations? That seems odd, given that there is no difference in NCs from one market to the next, or at least one that matter to maintenance.

 

And welcome to @LLUIS. There are plenty of NCs, DCT or not, with far more kilometres on them than that, still going strong, with no issues. Our dealership sees plenty of DCTs in NCs, Goldwings, Africa Twins, etc. There are no special concerns whatsoever, just a few quirks in operation as mentioned that are easy to get used to.

[MatBin 5,085]

10 hours ago, Dan German said:

The Owner’s Manual recommends the same GN4 10W30 regardless of transmission. The capacities are different, and of course the filter(s), but do other markets have different recommendations? That seems odd, given that there is no difference in NCs from one market to the next, or at least one that matter to maintenance.

 

And welcome to @LLUIS. There are plenty of NCs, DCT or not, with far more kilometres on them than that, still going strong, with no issues. Our dealership sees plenty of DCTs in NCs, Goldwings, Africa Twins, etc. There are no special concerns whatsoever, just a few quirks in operation as mentioned that are easy to get used to.

We had a few posts on here, unless my memory is playing tricks on me, which is could well be doing, that some owners with manuals used a different grade of oil, some even supplied by dealers/service depts and they worked ok. The different grade was cheaper so it was suggested it could be used in the dct versions too.

Just had a look back, apparently Honda switched the recommendation from 10/30 to 10/40 then back to 10/30 for the manual box.

Edited February 6 by MatBin

[Andy m 23,529]

10W40 is what any UK dealership will have in a bucket by the workshop door for general use. It mostly doesn't matter with Japanese machinery, but the DCT has blown a few minds amongst our low-skill workforce. The problem becomes **** covering because they won't want to admit they used the wrong oil, so set off along the path of changing other bits they don't understand, doing "resets" etc.

 

If you want modern medicine just avoid such witch doctors and it's fine.

 

Andy

[Tegraman 743]

22 minutes ago, Andy m said:

so set off along the path of changing other bits they don't understand, doing "resets" etc.

Either borderline, or actual, fraud.

It’s endemic. A neighbour has just had a very substantial payout after being told he must replace the auto box in his SUV. He has balls and took the matter to court. Independent engineers found a blocked breather in his otherwise serviceable gearbox. I’m told the workshop supervisor is now unemployed. 

 

 

 

[listener 11,185]

On 01/02/2024 at 11:28, LLUIS said:

Considering buying second hand, one owner 2018 NC750X DCT with 36,000 kms.

I am just wondering about if DCT has any maintenance special issues to be considered?

 

Hi @LLUIS, I have a 2018 NC750X DCT (bought early March 2019).

It's done just under 31000 miles (around 50000km) and the only issue I've had with the DCT was down to a battery gone bad.

 

Prior to this I owned a 2012 model which did about 30000 miles with no issues at all.

 

As others have said :

Use the correct grade of oil.

Try to always put it into neutral before switching off.

The bike is built down to a price so it is prone to corrosion (perhaps not such a problem in sunny Catalunya!)

[Andy m 23,529]

3 hours ago, Tegraman said:

Either borderline, or actual, fraud.

 

In one or two cases maybe, but mostly endemic stupidity IMHO. 

 

I've been training vehicle technicians for coming up on 30 years. The UK has a multitude of problems.

 

First the grinning goon and his mates decided (between dodgy dossiers) back in the 90's that everyone and his dog should go to university. The smart lad who should have done an apprenticeship in the 00's and now be master tech is a supervisor in a call centre making great use of his 3rd in Golf Philosophy from Aberystwyth Poly.

 

Next the technology moved on. You can't expect old men with hammers to fix computers (of which your average vehicle has 30+).

 

Finally we offer no respect to mechanics. Someone with the skill to diagnose a network problem and then repair an electro-mechanical system deserves a place to "wash his hands" that isn't a freezing cold, grease covered hole at the back of a shed. This is also why 51% of the population immediately excludes itself from even thinking of joining.

 

You therefore have a skills gap. The one who stuck with it and has real skill now works for himself and is about as available as your plumber or dentist. The one who'd rather be sweeping up or on the dole still has the power to convince a workshop manager that any bum on any seat is better than none. 

 

I get one or two every week where they change £2k ECUs because they genuinely believe it's a box full of demons, can't use a multi-meter and have no real knowledge. Mostly contact cleaner or £100 cables will suffice and it's the action of plugging and unplugging that fixed them. Still, good for sales.

 

The vehicle manufacturers and EU are working on a solution but it isn't one the consumer will like. AI and remote diagnostics mean the flesh-bot in the dealers only has to follow the pointers on his slave-pad, but "for your own safety" everyone else can and will be locked out. To use the example, you'll have to scan a bottle of Honda brand 10W30 before the filler will open and/or the starter motor function is released from service mode. The dealers monkey can manage that.

 

Andy

Edited February 6 by Andy m

[Tegraman 743]

10 minutes ago, Andy m said:

The vehicle manufacturers and EU are working on a solution but it isn't one the consumer will like. AI and remote diagnostics mean the flesh-bot in the dealers only has to follow the pointers on his slave-pad, but "for your own safety" everyone else can and will be locked out

Sad but true. I probably won't be allowed to keep doing it for much longer, but my jalopy's starter motor responds to 12 volts supplied from a switch via continuous copper wires that don't go anywhere near an ECU or similar. All other services are either on or they aren't. Nothing gets energised, or de-energised except by being switched by me. There is no need for a key fob, because there is nothing to listen to it. If a scrote wants to steal my car, he will, just as he will for every other vehicle on the planet. If he can be arsed to steal and sell it, he might or might not get enough to take himself and someone else's wife for a pizza.

 

If something breaks, victorian engineering will be pefecrly suitable to fix it. Yes I am old, and besides my hammer, my breakdown insurance goes everywhere with me, rattling and clanking in my tool bag.

 

Limp mode? No thanks. Automatic (insert gizmo of choice)? Nope. Hi-spec lubricants/coolant/fuel? Not likely. Engine management? What for?. Aircon? Yep, (windows up or down). ABS? No need.

 

The thing was made 30 years ago, out of mostly flat sheets of steel/alloy and off-the-shelf fasteners, bearings, oilseals and a wiring loom with three wires in it. The electrical parts were shared by umpteen other manufacturers and are piled high in recycling yards the world over.

 

Anyone would have a tough time persuading me to scrap it and buy something with "lane assist" whatever the holy f...... that is!

 

Thankfully I won't be around to see the dystopian future you describe, Andy.

 

 

[Slowboy 20,451]

Strangely I agree with all of that @Andy m. ‘Twas true 10 years ago when I was involved with post graduate development. We found a very successful approach was to get the recently BEng’d or MEng’d down the boat working with the craftsmen for at least 6 months, so they really understood that watching someone skilled makes it look easy, doing it alongside them takes time and effort and you’ll make it look hard initially.
 

The ones that got it, threw a six and we’re willing to learn from those guys turned out to be capable of much better results later in their careers when they were managing them and understood their contributions. The ones who did not rarely made it to the end of their probation period (2 years) or their professional ticket.

 

A good, smart, logical thinker capable of analysing systems and repairing them effectively is a massive asset to a business. Sadly too often too few of them are treated as such.

Edited February 6 by Slowboy

[Tegraman 743]

Brian, how do you put the name and @ sign in the viagra thingy when referring to a post? 

[Andy m 23,529]

20 minutes ago, Tegraman said:

Brian, how do you put the name and @ sign in the viagra thingy when referring to a post? 

Just type it without spaces and wait for the site to show the list of names. Not sure about the blue pills though, try the auction site 😁.

 

@Tegraman I see you have a "residual car". The latest EU noise is that they will ban the sale of key items to stop us going all Triggers Broom to avoid buying said Euro-ElectroFloat

 

https://english.elpais.com/lifestyle/2024-01-17/is-the-european-union-going-to-ban-repairing-old-vehicles-to-force-the-purchase-of-electric-ones.html

 

This is mostly noise so far. The Greens love it of course. It screams of a policy looking for a corporate sponsor. Without built in software locks though it's very hard to see how it'll work. They can hardly stop me making a crank from billet should I choose to. On something German where it already needs the computer telling its OK to accept the new gearbox it's there already, no need to legislate beyond R156 that's in the process of landing. 

 

Hacking these systems I can see as a nice little hobby for my retirement 😈🤐😈🤐😈😁.

 

Psst, wanna buy an unlocked head gasket for a 2024 Tesla?

 

Andy

 

[Xactly 5,399]

There is already a large market in keeping classic bikes and cars on the road. Perhaps the job losses in this sector plus the notion now that maybe we should move towards repairable things will help combat this insanity?

 

[Andy m 23,529]

6 minutes ago, Xactly said:

There is already a large market in keeping classic bikes and cars on the road. Perhaps the job losses in this sector plus the notion now that maybe we should move towards repairable things will help combat this insanity?

 

You'd hope so.

 

They aren't ever going to be interested in a few Norton Commandos. This is especially true when a couple of lads in Mumbai will be posting bits out labelled as Objet d'Art etc.

 

They are after preventing a large manufacturer setting up a refurbishment organisation. The noise is fantasy from the nutters who want nothing more advanced than a Chinese bicycle and the oft-used European tactic of asking for a ton of caviar when you want a bag of crisps.

 

Andy 

[Andy131 715]

Sadly Andy's vision is closer than we think.

Took the Disco Sport in for a service last week, and asked for all the oils to be changed - gearbox oil is fitted for life, that is when the oil fails so does the gearbox.

Garage pays a five figure sum every year for software to fix land Rovers, couldn't change the hydraulic oil in the 4x4 system (GKN) as he needs to operate the solenoids in a specific order to bleed the system.  Why was he changing the hydraulic oil LR wanted to know, customer request isn't a good enough answer.  Will be done as soon as he can get a 3rd party piece of software to enable him to bleed the system, as he pointed out mines fairly new and others will come along at some point wanting / needing the same service.

 

Good news is that he changed the oil in the front transfer box (twice), it was full of metallic debris, but wasn't on the service schedule, so hopefully extended the life of it.

[poldark 1,512]

The saying used to be "built to last" now it's clearly "built to fail, so you can buy another!"

[Andy m 23,529]

Everything always had a life. The unknown is if oil changes really extend it. If it's highly intolerant of starting without oil galleries full, but fine with old oil, changes do more harm than good. I assume someone has got one to 200000 miles both with and without oil changes? Sludge traps full of sludge could be fine if designed to fill up and never empty.

 

It could be like ramming the charger from your old Nokia into the weird port Apple fitted until the EU spanked them on the basis a 3310 lasted a week without a top-up and the I-dud doesn't.

 

It is not in Landrover's interest to have 70 year old vehicles out there of course and the better they get at a life the first consumer is happy with the better they are doing their job. The RAC and AA might have something to say of course, think of all the lost jobs towing them 😁😁😁. Not many people walk out of the showroom and go buy a 1997 Hilux on the basis of a sealed for life gearbox.

 

Andy

 

 

[Slowboy 20,451]

9 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Not many people walk out of the showroom and go buy a 1997 Hilux on the basis of a sealed for life gearbox.

 

Andy

Always amazes me how owners of JLR vehicles give them a pass even though they are consistently among the least reliable vehicles on the road. I suppose at least a Range Rover is a lovely place to sit while your waiting for the man in the yellow truck 😁😁😎

Edited February 7 by Slowboy

[Viator 1,523]

41 minutes ago, Andy131 said:

Sadly Andy's vision is closer than we think.

Took the Disco Sport in for a service last week, and asked for all the oils to be changed - gearbox oil is fitted for life, that is when the oil fails so does the gearbox.

Garage pays a five figure sum every year for software to fix land Rovers, couldn't change the hydraulic oil in the 4x4 system (GKN) as he needs to operate the solenoids in a specific order to bleed the system.  Why was he changing the hydraulic oil LR wanted to know, customer request isn't a good enough answer.  Will be done as soon as he can get a 3rd party piece of software to enable him to bleed the system, as he pointed out mines fairly new and others will come along at some point wanting / needing the same service.

 

Good news is that he changed the oil in the front transfer box (twice), it was full of metallic debris, but wasn't on the service schedule, so hopefully extended the life of it.

My Freelander 2 is going in for service shortly with a local LR independent and I asked for gearbox and diff oils to be changed (only 44k but nearly 10 years old) They tell me no problem to change the gearbox oil but the diffs are oil for life of vehicle and have no drain plugs. I thought oils were vacuumed out in such cases now but perhaps there is no access? What did you use to do on yours @Andy131?

[Viator 1,523]

Welcome @LLUIS, DCT's are great👍Oh and it is quite normal for conversations on here to quickly go 'off topic' 🤪

[Andy131 715]

How can I put this tactfully ?

Your garage is talking b***ocks.

Had a Freelander 2, the local garage drilled the rear diff and fitted a drian plug, the diff casting is used on other vehicles that have a drain plug fitted, the Freelander 2 has the flat spot for the plug, just not drilled. The front box is a different matter, no drain plug, but it's not difficult to suck out the old oil.

 

The gearbox oil should have been changed (in my opinion) at 75k, it wasn't, when I got around to changing it at 120,000 miles the stuff that cam out was black, stinking, and carried a fair amount of debris.  Changed again at 160,000 miles, but too late, started missing gears at 185,000 miles.  Garage that I use has one with 300,000 miles on the clock - original engine and gearbox.

The rear diff never gave a problem, the front transfer box input splines were damaged when the gearbox splines failed at 150,000 - exposed coupling, but internally as good as new.

 

Bought my Freelander 2 with 900 miles on the clock, sold her with 185,000+ miles on the clock - huge mistake, should have kept her

[Tegraman 743]

Changed my mind!

Edited February 7 by Tegraman
off topic