Nc700s 2013 starts when button is pressed, no electrics, wont shift out of first

[jakkal 10]

As per the title, i recently swapped my headlight over to an LED retro style headlight (not very electrically experienced) i took the little plastic bracket behind the stock headlight off and thr main headlight itslef and attached the new one, the new headlight lights up completely fine, but nothing else comes on... no dash, no brake lights and no indicators, the bike starts just fine on the button but none of the other switchgear works including the paddles to shift (DCT). I tried leaving it in what i assume is automatic (couldnt see the dash) and the bike drives but will not shift and after a few seconds does something that feels as though its switching to neutral again but the bike acts as though it is in first still (cuts off when kickstand goes down) i am confused and dont even know where to start identifying the issue. Any advice would be greatly appreciated :)

[EdG 156]

First I would check any connections you can find under the bracket you removed to see if you have dislodged anything.  I haven't poked about in that area myself but every just starts with the first step even, as in this case, it is backwards.

It is useful to post what year and model you have when asking for advice and I'm sure you will some more soon.

[Andy m 25,582]

Honda traditionally takes switched powers after the headlight. The filament lamp acts like a fuse. An LED won't do that so can't be connected in series with anything using a resistance to work. 

 

Check the fuses. If they are all intact you need to start undoing the changes made. 

 

You need a wiring diagram and probably want to be looking at what's between the ignition switch and headlight.

 

Andy

 

[jakkal 10]

Had a few blown fuses in there but when i did plug the old light back in it blew the bulb instantly after i replaced the fuses

[Grumpyoldgit 593]

So was there something wrong in the first place which is why you changed to an LED lamp?

more information required - start at ‘Everything worked as it should and then this happened...’  

[jakkal 10]

Headlight blew a few times before this, and my headlight fairings extremely rattley (been that way since i got my hands on it) 

[jakkal 10]

ive spent some time today checking it all out, my illumination fuse and clock/turn fuse were both toast, all other fuses seem to be intact, i checked the pvb and sub pvb fuses (the ones that supposedly control the DCT) and both where fine, bike starts up fine, can be clicked into drive but will stay in first gear and at seemingly random moments clunks into what i can only assume is neutral since the throttle doesnt do anything, but it will still act like it isnt when the side stand is down or i turn the engine off. (can be clunked back into real neutral by rolling backwards when the aggressive clicking happens which i assume is the bike trying and failing to put itself into actual neutral).

 

i did remove the headlight and place the old one back before all of this to make sure but the problems persist.

4 hours ago, Andy m said:

Honda traditionally takes switched powers after the headlight. The filament lamp acts like a fuse. An LED won't do that so can't be connected in series with anything using a resistance to work. 

 

Check the fuses. If they are all intact you need to start undoing the changes made. 

 

You need a wiring diagram and probably want to be looking at what's between the ignition switch and headlight.

 

Andy

 

 

[jakkal 10]

Just now, jakkal said:

ive spent some time today checking it all out, my illumination fuse and clock/turn fuse were both toast, all other fuses seem to be intact, i checked the pvb and sub pvb fuses (the ones that supposedly control the DCT) and both where fine, bike starts up fine, can be clicked into drive but will stay in first gear and at seemingly random moments clunks into what i can only assume is neutral since the throttle doesnt do anything, but it will still act like it isnt when the side stand is down or i turn the engine off. (can be clunked back into real neutral by rolling backwards when the aggressive clicking happens which i assume is the bike trying and failing to put itself into actual neutral).

 

i did remove the headlight and place the old one back before all of this to make sure but the problems persist.

 

i should clarify me saying the bike starts up fine is just the engine starting fine, none of the electrics are active (dash,turn signals, brake lights etc)

[Grumpyoldgit 593]

Have you got a (volt)meter to check the voltage when the bike is running?

Apart from checking all the multi-plug connections are sound and connected, and replacing anything that was taken off or disconnected, my first check would be to check the electrical supply and generation.

(Chapter 21 in the service book in the downloads section covers electrical / battery etc testing)

Battery good? voltage when standing and voltage when engine running. If the regulator/rectifier is playing up and chucking out a higher voltage than it should, that may well blow your bulbs, and seeing as the DCT /ECU etc are all electrically controlled who knows what may go haywire/ get damaged.

[jakkal 10]

20 hours ago, Grumpyoldgit said:

Have you got a (volt)meter to check the voltage when the bike is running?

Apart from checking all the multi-plug connections are sound and connected, and replacing anything that was taken off or disconnected, my first check would be to check the electrical supply and generation.

(Chapter 21 in the service book in the downloads section covers electrical / battery etc testing)

Battery good? voltage when standing and voltage when engine running. If the regulator/rectifier is playing up and chucking out a higher voltage than it should, that may well blow your bulbs, and seeing as the DCT /ECU etc are all electrically controlled who knows what may go haywire/ get damaged.

No volt meter unfortunately, had a hard look around all connections and all seem fine, anything disconnected has been replaced.

main culprit/general idea from people seems to be the regulator being fried and it would make sense that it would disable the DCT or put it into a sort of safe mode.

[Andy m 25,582]

I would suggest you are wasting your time simply guessing and part swapping. Either buy a multi-meter (seven quid ones from the super are fine) or seek professional help.

 

The VR is a high power component. Without it the coil, starter motor, the big stuff will stop working.

 

Possibly the other sources of information had different data but I'm seeing low power stuff like the dash not working.

 

The gearbox is reliant on ABS sensors and other stuff that come through the dash. I'd be trying to get the dash working first.

 

I'm still thinking the issue is one of the multi-plugs in the headstock side panel area, but we'll maybe come back to that if the new VR doesn't work. 

 

The blown fuses are more likely arcing or shorting at said plug. A VR failing tends to go low, you get piddling voltages/currents not surges. Also tends to start intermittent, ABS warnings and so forth and build up to zero function. The battery goes flat.

 

Diagnostics via interweb is not reliable though. Even when we use the numpty-bot (a workshop technician wearing a camera and connected via screen sharing software) it isn't a substitute for having real skills on site. The claims you see of people having their appendix taken out by plumbers in Siberia guided by surgeons in Moscow etc. are not something I'd care to try. You just can't see, smell, feel the tiny details that get you there.

 

They usually change the ECU a couple of times before we go that route! 

 

Good Luck

 

Andy 

 

 

[jakkal 10]

1 hour ago, Andy m said:

I would suggest you are wasting your time simply guessing and part swapping. Either buy a multi-meter (seven quid ones from the super are fine) or seek professional help.

 

The VR is a high power component. Without it the coil, starter motor, the big stuff will stop working.

 

Possibly the other sources of information had different data but I'm seeing low power stuff like the dash not working.

 

The gearbox is reliant on ABS sensors and other stuff that come through the dash. I'd be trying to get the dash working first.

 

I'm still thinking the issue is one of the multi-plugs in the headstock side panel area, but we'll maybe come back to that if the new VR doesn't work. 

 

The blown fuses are more likely arcing or shorting at said plug. A VR failing tends to go low, you get piddling voltages/currents not surges. Also tends to start intermittent, ABS warnings and so forth and build up to zero function. The battery goes flat.

 

Diagnostics via interweb is not reliable though. Even when we use the numpty-bot (a workshop technician wearing a camera and connected via screen sharing software) it isn't a substitute for having real skills on site. The claims you see of people having their appendix taken out by plumbers in Siberia guided by surgeons in Moscow etc. are not something I'd care to try. You just can't see, smell, feel the tiny details that get you there.

 

They usually change the ECU a couple of times before we go that route! 

 

Good Luck

 

Andy 

 

 

This is allot of useful information and advice, thank you i really appreciate it, i have a big attachment to this bike so any way i can get her back online i will do

[jakkal 10]

On 29/11/2024 at 20:07, Andy m said:

I would suggest you are wasting your time simply guessing and part swapping. Either buy a multi-meter (seven quid ones from the super are fine) or seek professional help.

 

The VR is a high power component. Without it the coil, starter motor, the big stuff will stop working.

 

Possibly the other sources of information had different data but I'm seeing low power stuff like the dash not working.

 

The gearbox is reliant on ABS sensors and other stuff that come through the dash. I'd be trying to get the dash working first.

 

I'm still thinking the issue is one of the multi-plugs in the headstock side panel area, but we'll maybe come back to that if the new VR doesn't work. 

 

The blown fuses are more likely arcing or shorting at said plug. A VR failing tends to go low, you get piddling voltages/currents not surges. Also tends to start intermittent, ABS warnings and so forth and build up to zero function. The battery goes flat.

 

Diagnostics via interweb is not reliable though. Even when we use the numpty-bot (a workshop technician wearing a camera and connected via screen sharing software) it isn't a substitute for having real skills on site. The claims you see of people having their appendix taken out by plumbers in Siberia guided by surgeons in Moscow etc. are not something I'd care to try. You just can't see, smell, feel the tiny details that get you there.

 

They usually change the ECU a couple of times before we go that route! 

 

Good Luck

 

Andy 

 

 

So it would seem the ABS dictates the DCT function, shes alive and well and started working when i replaced her illumi,horn,indicator fuse again (the spare was also dead apparently) , something about the dct needing the dash to function because if the dash isnt on the front ABS isnt active (or something along that line) thank you so much for the help and for allowing me some more fun with my pride and joy

[Slowboy 22,876]

Glad you got it sorted out @jakkal and thanks for getting back, might help someone else one day.

 

[jakkal 10]

36 minutes ago, jakkal said:

So it would seem the ABS dictates the DCT function, shes alive and well and started working when i replaced her illumi,horn,indicator fuse again (the spare was also dead apparently) , something about the dct needing the dash to function because if the dash isnt on the front ABS isnt active (or something along that line) thank you so much for the help and for allowing me some more fun with my pride and joy

Side note the LED headlight works but as soon as i plug in the integrated indicators that it has it shorts the fuse again so im just going to avoid plugging those in lol

[jakkal 10]

Quick notes for anyone who may run into a similar issue, both the illumi/stop/horn and clock/turn fuses control the dash it seems, without those most systems regarding the DCT seem to fail or struggle.

[Andy m 25,582]

5 hours ago, jakkal said:

Side note the LED headlight works but as soon as i plug in the integrated indicators that it has it shorts the fuse again so im just going to avoid plugging those in lol

That makes sense if the indicator relay is the mechanical type.

 

A filament lamp has a resistance. The associated old-school flasher relay is a bi-metalic strip. The resistance heats it and it bends away, opening the contact, it cools and closes it, it heats up....... result flashing.

 

An LED has no resistance so what usually happens is that the LED just stays on instead of flashing. I'm guessing this one doesn't like the relay permanently on so blows the fuse.

 

For LED indicators you need a digital flasher relay. Basically a timer that does the flashing cycle. If you want to try again you can get direct plug-in replacements, the timer circuit re-packaged in the mechanical pot type housing.

 

Glad you are sorted.

 

Andy