Flat Battery

[Guest ronecc]

Came to start the X this morning and the battery is completely flat, just a glow worm in the headlamp. I usually keep the bike plugged in to an Optimiser, but last week, after riding it, I forgot to plug it in. Having come back from a weeks holiday, I was amazed the charge had not lasted that long. My last couple of rides have only been around 70 miles each, and with the headlamp and heated grips, I was wondering whether that has caused the low battery. I bought the bike second hand with 4k on the clock, and it is 14 months old. The extras are Honda heated grips and a Gipro gear indicator. Anybody else had a battery problem?

[Guest Crusty]

My personal view (as an electrical engineer) is that it's the optimizer that has fried your battery. There's absolutely no reason to use one if you routinely ride your bike as those things are notorious for eating heathly batteries. Let your bike do the job of keeping the battery charged.

[Guest hairnet]

if you ride it more than once a week chargers are pointless

 

like crusty said its killed your battery

 

like keeping yer xmas lights plugged into the wall all year and not turning them on - no need

[lipsee 1,351]

I suspect the prevoius two guys are right,,I would just say I have returned from three weeks holiday and went to start her yesterday.and bangon the button ,she fired up,,No Sweat !!!!!!

[tc3 1,095]

This has certainly not been my experience. I used an optimiser for 5 winters on my old sv and the battery was as good as new. This winter my NC was attached to an Optimate for most the time and the battery is just fine.

[Guest MikeParkin65]

I was worried that my battery would be dead after 2 months lay up stored outside. However it started first time with no hesitation at all - very impressed.

[Guest ronecc]

Thanks guys. I have used Optimisers for years myself with no problem. I have re-connected it to put some life back in, so I can start her up. Once done I will get it checked out and get the battery checked. I have not been riding it a lot, weather and other commitments, but as I said, it had been ridden twice in the last two weeks. The previous owner never used it, 2,900 miles in ten months. The Optimiser connection was on when  bought the bike, so I just connected my charger to that. I will confirm if the battery is shot, then it will be further ammunition for those folk who don't use them.

[ste7ios 469]

The biggest problem of the wet batteries is sulfation which gradually wear them and they lost their initial capacity. Sulfation begins to build-up when the battery is not fully charged and it's not always so easy to keep it that way, so a maintainer / battery tender is sometimes necessary to keep the battery in good condition.

Ron you must check your battery and probably the optimizer with a technician... A battery must last 4-5 years. Have in mind that heated grips consume a lot of power and the battery can not be charged (voltage drops under the required 14.4V)

If you need more info about the batteries I'll try to translate an article I've written in Greek at Scribd (http://www.scribd.com/ste7ios)

[Rocker66 34,466]

Sue and I have used optimates for years as we tend to lay up our leisure bikes for the winter and just use our commuter bikes. Only once did we have a problem and that was with a 4 year old battery

[Guest Crusty]

As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly ok to hook up one of these optimisers after a winter layover. However it seems pointless, indeed harmful to the battery to use one on a bike that is being ridden regularly.

[Guest NCXrookie]

As I only get to ride the NCX about once every 10 days or so I do plug it in to the optimate to ensure it will start next time.  I guess it will be impossible to bump start it.  The first bike I owned you could bump start as I live at the top of a hill.   Freewheel and then second gear selected when enough speed was gained!

[Rocker66 34,466]

As far as I'm concerned, it's perfectly ok to hook up one of these optimisers after a winter layover. However it seems pointless, indeed harmful to the battery to use one on a bike that is being ridden regularly.

Rather than hook it up after a winter layover we have them hooked up during the layover so that the bike is ready to start when we want

[ste7ios 469]

If you use a maintainer / battery tender it's not harmful but beneficial! It maintains a steady steady state of charge (SOC) without overloading the battery and keeps your battery very happy!

 

Also, if you use a maintainer AFTER a winter layover you'll already have lost the battery due to sulfation. Even on the self you must charge the battery every 2-3 weeks to keep the battery fully charged all the time or even better have a battery tender always connected to the battery! Otherwise the battery self discharges itself (it's a natural process for wet batteries) and looses its capacity as sulfation builds up.

 

Also 'regularly' is very relative... My regularly riding every day is about 8-10' which is not enough to charge the battery. Usually,

to fully charge the battery you must drive at least for 30' at some revs after every engine start without any accessory turned on...

 

I had the same problem with the Piaggio MP3 where my 20' ridings weren't enough too.

 

I installed a Kosso mini 3 voltmeter to monitor the SOC...

[ste7ios 469]

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2009.pdf

[Guest simon]

My battery failed after six months despite using an optimate. You can bump start the bike but you look like a tool; at least, I did.

[steelhorseuk 1,693]

Not sure all the Optimate products are the same but a quick check on the older versions reveals they do not all have battery conditioners built in.

 

We use the Optimate 3+ which does not cook the battery. It just tops up the charge every 30 mins after checking the condition.

 

I think the versions after that all do the same but at a much lower Ampage saving electricity. 

 

I havent had any starting problems with mine and its always plugged back in after an outing. Green lights across the board of the optimate, starts first time, everytime!

 

(touching wood now!)

 

Mark

[lipsee 1,351]

Ok  I have a question for all you elecyy engineering types,,,,its about my Honda  Gold Wing   1975....OK I fitted a new battery last year,and as I intend to store the bike for a year or so bought a fancy Optimaate charger,,,I did not want to over charge so I connected the charge to a timer and then in to the mains.So now the charger switches on every few days and then switches off again...Is this the right thing to do?....or will it damage the battery

[Rocker66 34,466]

The later optimate shouldn't need a timer as we leave ours on all winter with no problems. It only charges when the battery drops below a certain level

[steelhorseuk 1,693]

Lipsee. You are doing the wrong thing with the Optimate charger, anything above version 3 leave connected and switched on.

The conditioner will do the rest!

[Capt Slow 61]

I'm from an electrical /scientific background and agree with others that with frequent riding any optimiser/optimate..... isn't needed. Also believe that these chargers do more harm than good when used continaully between rides - for extended periods. I do use them over winter but only for 24'ish hours to "top-up".

What voltage do you have across the battery with bike ticking-over and higher revs?

[Rocker66 34,466]

I would be interested to know why you think that long term use over winter causes harm. Both Sue and I use them in this manner with no problems. Yesterday Sue took her Hornet off charge after circa 5 months and it started first time. I believe that the older versions could cause problems but that the later versions are OK

[ste7ios 469]

We shouldn't generalize... All maintainers & chargers are not functioning in the same way, and they don't have the same quality.

A battery will be happy when it's always fully charged because sulfation is not going to build. Yuasa and other battery focused technical sources are very clear with this.

So keeping a battery fully charged is not a bad thing. It's bad to overcharge it, because the produced heat evaporates the fluids ( and there is no way to refill...). If you're using the right tool there is no such problem. Quick charging is also must be avoided.

Of course there is no meaning to use a maintainer if your daily ridings can fully charge the battery.

Usually the problem is that we don't know what's the status of the battery (and the electrical system), and we also don't know the tool we are using and how to use it. Is it a trickle charger or a 4-5 phase charger? etc, etc... Boring stuff but that's why we've forums like this, and the Internet in general!

[Guest ronecc]

Banged a hornets nest with my original question. I have not ridden my bike since the day I posed the question. I went for a 70ish mile ride, without the heated grips on this time, parked it up when I got home, and left it with no charger attached, just to see whether the miles covered would re-charge the batter enough. I have been out to try it now and it fired up first push of the button.

I agree, there is no need to use the Optimate if the bike is ridden regularly, but unfortunately for various reasons I have not been able to. The conclusion- don't use the Honda (or maybe other makes) heated grips, if only riding shortish distances, infrequently.

[Guest Smidsy]

Like everyone else I have experienced a flat battery with only 1200 miles on the clock, the only charger I have ever used is a halfords trickle charger, which I have used on my Bullet for the last 6 years, in all honesty I only do so every once in a while and the bike only gets used once every couple of weeks and it's always well charged, the NC appears to have an inherent fault of killing batteries, something Honda really need to address, mine is on charge at the moment, if it goes flat again it's back to Honda.

[ste7ios 469]

1. This charger is not compatible with AGM batteries. See the note at the end of the page. The best is to use at least a four stage maintainer.
2. Two weeks are enough to get the battery discharged and let sulfation to kill the battery... Also if your rides are short the battery will never get fully charged.

I'm still searching about NC's electrical system and so far it seems to be designed to support AGM batteries (the voltage is between 14.3V - 14.6V). I think the 14.6V is a little bit aggressive even for an AGM (it may cause venting) but I may be too conservative...