DCT/Integra Chain and Sprockets

[Guest EasyTiger]

A series of posts on a "New Integra" thread with contributions from Embee, Marte, Wozza and Stimilon prompts me to start a dedicated thread here:

 

Embee started by posting:

"I changed the chain due to the various issues which have cropped up with the 700 chain, and I didn't really like the stiffness of the links on the std chain. I put a DID VX2 on it and have to say the smoothness of the chain is now a world different. It sounds silky smooth when you spin the wheel and the "graininess" felt at certain speeds seems to have gone completely. Came from Busters shop on the auction site, sprockets were like new so just the chain replaced."

 

Marte commented:

"I was also tempted to buy a DID VX2 but eventually drop it when I saw my chain getting recovered (kinked links).

I'm determined to see how many km I can get from the OEM chain. And I would have liked to know about yours too, cause your oiler implementation is the best I've seen so far.

That silky smooth sound you mention is probably due to the grease the chain comes with, and as you know you can get it with an oiler just increasing the oil flow (and the fling, sadly). Didn't you try just increasing the flow?

I've come to think that the sealing rings don't make much sense when using automatic oilers."

 

Embee replied:

"My OE chain hadn't suffered any appreciable wear and all links felt the same, my bike has done about 5k miles (8k km). I just didn't really like the feel of it compared to the chains on my other bikes, and I've always felt the slight rumbly coarse feeling (what I referred to as graininess) at certain speeds, though it is better with enough slack in the chain. I've certainly tried manually oiling the chain, and using spray grease too, I know what you mean about a better feel but it only lasts a very short distance. It hasn't altered the stiffness of the links.

 

The new chain really is so different in feel that it's not just the lubrication, I'm sure the sealing ring friction must be substantially lower with the VX2, they claim it is and it certainly feels so.

 

I guess I changed the chain as much to make me feel better about setting off on long tours as anything, but I'm certainly glad I DID (pun intended   ). With changing only the chain it wasn't too expensive, about £60 (Eu72) after shopping around, providing you can do the work yourself.

 

Anyone wanting to change the chain, consider an endless one and dropping the swingarm out, it's very easy to do if you have a centrestand, no special tools required other than a 27mm socket and it removes any issue of getting a good rivetting on the loose link."

 

I added:

"I am just about to change the chain on my X DCT. At 10,600 miles. I maintain mine reasonably and use a Loobman oiler whenever I ride. I was surprised how stiff the OEM is becoming. Grainy! Other bikes have had perfect chains at higher mileages.
If anyone is thinking of changing, look for non-OEM parts well in advance. I found it hard to get two new sprockets and the 112-link chain the DCT needs, unlike the 114 links of the manuals. Lots of outlets advertise them, but they don't actually stock them, nor do their distributors. While the front 520 16-tooth is common to all NC700s, the manual rear is 43 tooth and the DCT 39. The 39 rear seems to be on back order everywhere, even the OEM one. JT Parts front JTF1373, Rear JTR 1303, 39 or 43. Rental do a chain and hard anodised rear in the bigger size, and AFAM a cheaper one.
I've ended up ordering a complete DID chain and sprocket set from Italy (£115. The Honda sprockets alone are £33 front, £37 rear. The DID kit comes with the VX2 chain. It will be steel or black. I would like to have fitted the Gold version that is available here, but the kit didn't exist for that. Happy to swap though!"

 

Original thread is at: http://www.nc700.co.uk/index.php?/topic/5915-new-integra/#entry53475

[Guest EasyTiger]

Marte asked:

"Given that Embee has find a DID VX2 chain for only 72 € as a final consumer, it would probably cost Honda less than a third of that amount. Why on earth create such a bad product image for the NCs choosing the VO instead?

EasyTiger, isn't the chain covered by the guarantee? I mean, you haven't reached the scheduled distance for replacement.

Mine has got 21000 km and looks fine, is not stretched at all and yes, it's a bit stiff."

 

Wozza stated:

"Now this is why I regularly maintain each individual chain link by physically checking it and making sure the rollers and links move freely."

 

In my defence I replied:

"The local Honda dealer, Fowlers, says that chains are consumables, not covered by warranty. I'd rather not have another OEM chain. (£184 a set. They also offer a cheaper RK chain.).
I've not had a chain stiffen so much on previous bikes, where I have used the same maintenance regime and oiler. It was really obvious at an extra interim service at 10,000 miles, when doing the usual adjustment check.
I would be happier with a DID Gold H/D X-Ring Chain 520VX2x112 . £65.19 at M&P.
AFAM also advertise a Gold kit at £118, but I am not familiar with that make."

 

Marte was in tuneful mood:

"You know, as oiling goes by, I increasingly resonate with Joe Coker's song:
"Un-CHAIN my heart, bike let me be.."

 

Stimilon dropped a verbal handgrenade into the discussion!

"Interesting that DID are recommending the 525 over the 520 chain for the NCs"

A DID Chart posted on the original thread shows all NC700 models, manual and DCT, alongside 525 VX and 525VM-X chains.

 

I asked "What do the words "Japan Edition" mean after each NC700 reference?

The Upgrade 525ZVM-X is a Gold heavy duty chain costing some £120 to £130.

The 525s are more usual on a higher-powered bike (rated to 1000cc), or perhaps enduro.

I believe a number of owners have done this conversion, usually plus 525 sprockets as well.

 

DID's own NC 700 DCT/Integra chain and sprocket kit uses lighter 520 parts, same as OEM...(rated by DID up to 750cc).

(Item number 151240036251 on that auction site...)

http://www.that auction site.co.uk/itm/151240036251?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

Chain of thoughts?

Edited March 21, 2014 by EasyTiger

[Marte 127]

Thanks for opening this thread, I agree we were going off topic.

I've been wondering what is causing stiffness in the VO chains, apart from corrosion. Could it be deformation?

[Guest EasyTiger]

I ordered a replacement DID X ring chain and sprocket kit from Italy last Wednesday.

I received it this morning - the following Tuesday.

Around £110 - £115 depending on pound/Euro.

http://www.that auction site.co.uk/itm/151240036251?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

[Guest EasyTiger]

I went to fit the new chain and sprockets...The good news is they arrived in a very attractive 2012 DCT-specific pack complete with chain tool and small aerosol of lubricant. Good news as the 2013/14 750 D front has a different number of teeth (17) .... I was delighted to see the Black and Gold X Ring 520 chain. The 16-tooth front sprocket is very attractive with a red rubber damper on each side.

The bad news is the new chain fits the old front and 39-tooth rear easily, and the new rear...but doesn't seat in the new swish front. It fits an OEM front perfectly.

The old OEM chain does fit the new front sprocket...

 

According to the supplier, my new Italian friend Andrea, DID say a number of customers have reported this and the answer is to force the chain in...

This doesn't seem like such a good idea, if it's even possible with a rubber mallet, and for the moment I'm using the old front. The rear sprocket showed signs of wear at 10,500, but the front is in relatively good condition, no hooking, and could just be turned round.

 

Any thoughts?

[Guest EasyTiger]

Another link in this chain of events. I'm still sticking with the old front sprocket for the moment.

 

Here's the latest from Andrea in Macerata:

"I wrote again to the DID technicians and they confirmed that the rubber damper of the gear, making thick, prevents, in break-in phase, to the chain fits tightly to the teeth of the pinion, but the problem can be solved by applying manually the chain to the crown and if necessary, also to push it in a robust way, and then, after a while of use, this problem will disappear .."

 

Hmm...

It may be that next week I will put the new sprocket in a vice and see if the new chain can be eased into position with a rubber mallet..."in a robust way"

I've even wondered about taking a Dremel to the damper ....

Edited March 28, 2014 by EasyTiger

[Marte 127]

It's an amazing mistake on DID's part to deliver those items needing a rubber mallet to be mounted. If I were to decide, I think I would ask for a replacement.

[embee 7,288]

Not exactly sure what the issue is. Are the damper rings too big in diameter for the chain to sit down fully into the teeth?

 

Some OE sprockets on other bikes use damper rings, as I understand it these are simply for noise reduction. For them to work at all they must touch the chain therefore by definition the chain doesn't sit fully down into the sprocket teeth, the amount by which they interfere is of course the crucial thing. As the set beds in the damper rings tend to indent and the chain sits further down. I've never been convinced by them, I've assumed they are a measure to get through drive-by noise tests rather than anything else. My SV650 std sprocket had them, the replacement one I fitted didn't and I never really noticed any difference in noise or feel.

 

Not a very satisfactory situation it must be said. If all else fails you could simply cut the damper rings off altogether, but not a good situation to be in really.

[Guest EasyTiger]

At the moment, the new chain simply doesn't fall between the teeth of the new DID sprocket after the first few...as it goes round further the links end up sitting on top of the teeth. I assume they are forced off by the unyielding diameter of the damper.

Yet the same chain easily fits the OEM front - which has no damper. The OEM chain doesn't fit the new front sprocket either, so it's not either chain.

I have checked the packaging and DID's own recommended size and part number, and it's definitely the part they intend to fit.

I'm not a big fan of assembling things "in a robust manner". I will have another go next week...

[kayz1 2,928]

If any of you cahps are old enough to remember the BMC A series engines ( moggy minor, Mini that sort of age ) the cam chain sprocket had the two rubber bands and could be a right Barstuard to fit,,,

Lyn.

 

PS: had to order a new chain for the Ugly scoot today as i have stiff links in 4 places around the chain, odd as i have never had to adjust it in 8000 miles.

[Guest EasyTiger]

Take 2. All's well that ends well....

Managed to fit the chain to the new DID sprocket. It didn't fit when wound on (though it dropped into all the holes of the OEM sprocket). At that stage it fitted a few holes, then sat on top of the teeth themselves, as if it were the wrong pitch.

It did fit when sat round and tension was slowly applied from the rear with the adjusters, and knowing that it ought to fit. I'd been a bit ginger before for safety's sake.

The mechanic I went to has fitted thousands of chains and never seen this problem before. It may even be that the new sprocket has such high quality dampers that more of the chain is in contact and initially is raised more.

So, be bold with the DID chain and sprocket kits if you fit one!