trisaki 2,029 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Hi guys just taken the links apart on another Nc guess what -no grease on this one either / repacked with good quality grease and reassembled should ride a bit smoother Link to post
Guest bonekicker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) No Grease-- No Surprise--- very disappointing mark isn't it mark it's also a good idea to remove and grease the plastic cover bolts and grease I took mine out a couple of weeks ago and they had stated rusting and where hard to remove. Saying that it's probably best to strip all the ****** bike down and grease everything. Edited January 30, 2015 by bonekicker Link to post
stordz 901 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 No surprise there, seems to be a sign of the times. Link to post
Longtimerider 133 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I have just had my bike in dock for the not-the-tank lock recall and a deep clean / HCF 50 (whatever it is called ) application. I asked if they could check if the suspension links were greased OK and lube them if they were not. When I returned the loan bike (a 750 S - nice, but felt much smaller than my X and seemed to handle differently), the dealer said they had not checked the suspension as there was a 4 hour labour charge and they didn't think I would like that (how right they were). My question is, does it take that long? Could I do it myself- what is involved? After what has been reported by forum members it would seem like a good thing to do before something seizes or wears out prematurely! Any advice would be welcome. Regards, Longtimerider. Link to post
TheEnglishman 401 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 ...Could I do it myself- what is involved? ... Easy to do . You'll need a toolkit. A reasonable one. 40 piece jobbie from halfords or something. I'd recommend a torque wrench for about £30-£40 covering from 20 - 80 nm. I believe the workshop manual is available somewhere on the internet should you want graphic detail. It's just a matter of taking bolts/nuts/screws off and then putting them back. the knack is not having any left at the end. 2 Link to post
Guest Neil700 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Neil is spot on. As long as you have a centre stand , it's as easy as falling out of a tree. Need to place a chock under the rear wheel and off you go. There are 4 nuts and bolts. 2 long and 2 short. Once apart, you really can't make a mess of it as it can only go back together 1 way. I did mine and the ride quality was a massive improvement. The problem is that there are no seals on the bearings except for the bottom shock bearing, so I am guessing that the little oem grease that is in there washes put with the rain after time. A clean and re-grease shd take no longer than an hour ... Not sure where honda came up with 4 hours labour! Link to post
Guest bonekicker Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 These are stupid made up prices as per usual-- I'm glad you lads are finding out for yourself's and starting to work on your own bike's it is interesting and makes you more assured that everything is working OK and saves you a LOT of money in the the process. There's a wealth of knowledge and members willing and able to help us all, please just ask. Link to post
Longtimerider 133 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks guys, I will give it a go. I have a good tool kit and a decent garage (having a new roof on it Wednesday). What Greece is best for this job? I really appreciate your help. After I have done the work, I will talk to the dealer and ask where the 4 hours comes from, maybe they were going to do much more than I had in mind. Regards, Longtimerider. Link to post
Derek_Mac 1,404 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The service manual says to use grease containing Molybdenum Disulphide for them. Possibly 4 hours tis the flat rate time* for replacing the bearings completely. * Flat rate time - the parts manual gives Honda's allowed/estimated time for installing or replacing parts which is probably where the dealers get their estimates of time for a job from. Link to post
DB1965 224 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The service manual says to use grease containing Molybdenum Disulphide for them. Possibly 4 hours tis the flat rate time* for replacing the bearings completely. * Flat rate time - the parts manual gives Honda's allowed/estimated time for installing or replacing parts which is probably where the dealers get their estimates of time for a job from. funny they never come back and say it only took the 3 hours sir not the 4 estimated 1 Link to post
TheEnglishman 401 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Just any all purpose grease. I wouldn't recommend grecian olive oil, no matter how cheap it is Edit - not sure why they're specifying Moly grease - unless my idea of where it's used is different in reality. I got a pot from Halfords a long time ago - something like this will last you a lifetime. http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluids/grease/comma-multi-purpose-grease-500g 'What grease' is akin to 'what oil' or 'what tyres' and could go on for some time.... Edited January 31, 2015 by TheEnglishman 2 Link to post
embee 7,288 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) All the bearings in the linkage are needle rollers, moly grease is not correct for rolling element bearings (Moly is used for sliding or oscillating plain bearings, such as old Brit bikes with plain bushes in the swingarm etc). As Neil says above, something like Castrol LM is perfect. Just a note, the needle roller bearings do have seals in them, they are built intio the ends of the drawn cups. Having said that the gaps between the links don't help things, crud gets caught in there and leads to corrosion which can migrate into the bearing and ruin the seals. I was pleasantly surprised at the grease in there when I checked mine, but added more anyway. These sort of reciprocating bearings, not continuously rotating, can safely be fully packed with grease. It isn't done on rotating bearings (wheels etc) because the grease "churns" and can overheat and degrade. I made some thin Delrin shims to fit in the gaps between the linkage parts to keep crud out of there. They are a slip fit, minimum clearance but not tight. Unfortunately that means making them bespoke to fit the gap in that particular linkage assembly. Edited January 31, 2015 by embee 1 Link to post
djsb 493 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Murray, Are you able to share the dimensions of the delrin shims at all? Thanks. Link to post
embee 7,288 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Sorry I have no exact dimensions, I just made them to fit as measured at the time. Checking back through photos I remember I fitted them only to the suspension unit pivot, I thing the other gaps were small enough but this one stood out as exposing the bearing sleeve. Here's the pics I have, you get the idea. The hole is big enough to fit over the bearing tube, the thickness is just a bit less than the gaps so they are floating with grease to seal the sides. 1 Link to post
Marte 127 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Been checking the workshop manual and it prescribes moly grease for the linkage. I understand your reasoning and feel curious about the discrepancy. All the bearings in the linkage are needle rollers, moly grease is not correct for rolling element bearings (Moly is used for sliding or oscillating plain bearings, such as old Brit bikes with plain bushes in the swingarm etc). As Neil says above, something like Castrol LM is perfect. Just a note, the needle roller bearings do have seals in them, they are built intio the ends of the drawn cups. Having said that the gaps between the links don't help things, crud gets caught in there and leads to corrosion which can migrate into the bearing and ruin the seals. I was pleasantly surprised at the grease in there when I checked mine, but added more anyway. These sort of reciprocating bearings, not continuously rotating, can safely be fully packed with grease. It isn't done on rotating bearings (wheels etc) because the grease "churns" and can overheat and degrade. I made some thin Delrin shims to fit in the gaps between the linkage parts to keep crud out of there. They are a slip fit, minimum clearance but not tight. Unfortunately that means making them bespoke to fit the gap in that particular linkage assembly. Link to post
embee 7,288 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Interesting Marte. Just have to use your judgement then. The reason moly is not used in rolling element bearings is that there should be no sliding of contacts just rolling, and moly can promote slipping of rollers, though that's not particularly usual. The moly is there for when sliding surfaces get very close together and there isn't sufficient sliding speed to generate any form of hydrodynamic film especially if the motion is oscillating/reversing or near static occasionally, it's then a solid lubricant (very low shear strength solid particles). Using moly grease in a suspension linkage is very unlikely to cause any issues, but I'm surprised it is recommended. I suppose it could make sense for the faces between the links, which do oscillate and slide. 1 Link to post
Guest bikeknut Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I disassembled my rear suspension linkage based on concerns raised by this thread. There was no problem with the amount of grease in the bearings. The have been comments here about completely "dry" assemblies and would like to know what was meant by this. On reassembly and with the rear wheel still supported I was surprise to see there is lateral sideways movement on the link assembly. That is to say the frame mounted assembly can move sideways until it hits the inside of the swingarm mounted arms. There is no bearing surface so it is metal to metal if the frame mounted assembly moves across. I suppose there is no lateral force and they thought it wasn't worth the expense improving on it. Link to post
trisaki 2,029 Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 I started this off last year when I took my nc700x apart / the bearings and sleeves were absolutely grease free now taken a second one apart and exactly the same / once put together didn't notice any play anywhere Link to post
djsb 493 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) Does anyone have a source for the roller bearings for the rear cushion (17 x 24 x 30 91052-MGS-D31)? The OEM bearings are 17.41 euro each and 4 are needed. There are lots of bearing suppliers so maybe someone has found some a bit cheaper. I've bought myself a SH rear cushion off that auction site so I can fit some new bearing to it and just swap my original out. This will enable me to keep the linkages as rust free as possible. I may be being a bit paranoid but a bit of forward thinking is a good thing. P.S To what do the dimensions 17 x 24 x 30 refer to? There is an inside diameter, an outside diameter and a width asked for when doing a search. However the order is not alway correct. I am assuming (as it makes sense) that the outside diameter is 30 mm, the inside diameter is 24 mm and the width (depth?) is 17 mm. Is this correct? Difficult to measure when the part is on the bike. Edited June 13, 2015 by djsb Link to post
trisaki 2,029 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Hi Wemoto list a 17x24x30 linkage bearing £12.00 Link to post
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