Tyre Pressures

[Guest Peter]

When my bike was initially delivered in late April of this year I called the dealer and asked if there was anything I needed to do or check before I got on the bike. No he said, it is all checked over, just get on and ride. Which I did. Bike felt weird at low speeds- very heavy and unresponsive. Got back to the dealer and he said it was probably because I was new to bigger bikes. got back on and went to ride out of my driveway around my wife's car, and fell over. Got back on all embarrassed, and fell over again. More embarrassed. Not much damage, but some on a brand new bike. Most to my ego as a neighbour was watching the second time. Checked hte pressures and both were less than half. Dealer did not want to know. Went to honda Australia and have had some assistance, but still losing a lot of pressure from the front. They fitted new wheels, and that has fixed the back but not the front. Need to check pressures daily and am paranoid. Went back to another dealer and he is asking Honda about a new tyre. Any suggestions. Half the pressure out of the front in two weeks. Not happy John.

Oh, and have not come down since I have maintained the pressures. Especially in front of that neighbour.

[Guest GeoffThai]

Similar in Thailand but always on the high pressure side, none of the dealers/garages I have seen have any pressure gauge (its normally checked with a hammer!) and all compressors here seem to be set at 50 psi. But always a good idea to check your pressure before you ride until you have some record of how often you need to add some air. I check mine now about once a week, had a slow leak while back and it turned out to be a valve.

[Guest bonekicker]

Peter lost faith already with the service at garages? always but always double check everything--especially tyre pressures--we should not have to do --but we have too---before any ride have a little kick at the tyres and check nothing is lose 

[pjm 6,041]

I have tyre pressure sensors linked to my Garmin 590 sat nav. They are a great safety device but I think they do not seal perfectly and the tyres lose a few pounds across a week. I just have an upright bicycle pump in the garage which has a fairly accurate gauge on to top them up. I would not want to rely on a forecourt pump for accuracy. I did have a front puncture on a blade years ago and it was fairly slow and it was like I had suddenly forgotten how to ride as it went down. Had TPS on a car and it saved me from getting stuck on a motorway so sold me on the idea. In the car it had sensors that calculated the revolutions of the wheel. If you got a puncture the diameter of the wheel changed the revolutions in relation to the sensor and triggered the alarm.

[Guest Peter]

Especially when next door guy is looking out his window. After the initial incidents I invested in a gauge. 

[bazza 3,629]

I have one of those stick type gauges -and both tyres always seem to be low so I have blamed the gauge- maybe its the wheels?

but how can you tell if the gauge is accurate? Everyone says don't believe the garage compressors and I agree the pressures are critical -especially on our small diameter wheels.After my 21" KTM front wheel I keep looking at the Honda as its so heavy compared to that skinny item !

[Guest GBH]

I use a small digital gauge purchased from Halfords and it reads to 0.5 psi. I don't check the bikes as much as I should like every ride but when I do through the summer when the tyre is cold the pressure is always where it should be per the manual. When the bikes are not used over the winter for say 4 months I loose about 1-3 psi which is normal for tyres and alloy wheels filled with normal air.

On my cars I have started using Nitrogen and the pressure does not move at all for 12 months. If it does go down you have a punchure and they are all alloy wheels. Maybe I should start using nitrogen on the bikes but you have to go to a garage and pay for the service. Also reduces corrosion on the alloy.

[Tex 36,817]

I have one of those stick type gauges -and both tyres always seem to be low so I have blamed the gauge- maybe its the wheels?

but how can you tell if the gauge is accurate? Everyone says don't believe the garage compressors and I agree the pressures are critical -especially on our small diameter wheels.After my 21" KTM front wheel I keep looking at the Honda as its so heavy compared to that skinny item !

 

I don't think it matters if the gauge is accurate (a pound or two either way is no big deal) as long as it can accurately measure any difference from 'normal'. I run the Integra at 33 front 38 rear (10% less than 'standard' which is for two up riding anyway - oh dear, can of worms..) and check them with the same gauge and always when cold.

 

Edit: Just seen George's reply (above). Hadn't thought of nitrogen. Might be worth investigating, cheers!

Edited July 21, 2015 by Tex

[Trev 18,797]

As posted elsewhere on here, I have suffered with tyres losing pressure ever since I replaced the OE ones when they worn out. The problem appears to be dealing around the valve/wheel. 'Solved' it by running tyre sealant in last pair of tyres but new rear and same problem again. This time instead of going for tyre sealant one of the fitters at my mates tyre business suggested a bolt in valve that tightens down against a thick rubber seal. After two weeks the rear hasn't lost any pressure so may at last have resolved it. Definittely something not right with the Honda wheels on my bike though as I have 7 other bikes including 26 year old tubeless wheeled Suzuki and they only lose 1 - 2 psi after a whole year!!

 

IMO it's p*ss poor and if I had bought the bike new then most definitely the dealer and Mr Honda would have been getting as much flak as I could muster. It may be the one thing that's puts me off going for the new Africa twin if new fangled tubless spoked wheels

[Huskyteer 1,091]

This time instead of going for tyre sealant one of the fitters at my mates tyre business suggested a bolt in valve that tightens down against a thick rubber seal. After two weeks the rear hasn't lost any pressure so may at last have resolved it.

Interesting - I'll be needing new tyres in a week or two (well, I need them now, can't have until after payday ) so I'll mention this.

[ScaredyCat 1,659]

I have one of these - http://www.amazon.co.uk in my frunk all the time, cheap but nice. I did have one of those battery stick ones but I prefer this one. 

 

I've been meaning to pick up some of those right angled dooberies so that, in an emergency I can top up at a garage without ripping the skin off my knuckles.

I've also been a bit paranoid since my 2 punctures in quick succession. I'm still convinced that the tyre is down (when it's not) perhaps they fiddled with my rear shock when fitting the new tyre?

Pump I got for home was from t'ee-bay, search for "Bike It Track Pump / Motorbike Motorcycle Cycle Tyre Inflator & Pressure TYR12" - very quick to pump up even a completely flat tyre.

edit: link went funny

Edited July 21, 2015 by ScaredyCat

[Guest Peter]

The dealer has come back to me and will replace the front tyre free. Either Michelin or Pirelli. Not the same as the rear which is Metzler (not sure of spelling). I guess I will take what is offered and hope for success.

Thanks for the comments guys. I imagine that the issue could be the Honda wheels, or the fact that the bike was just sitting in the shop for a long time before I acquired it - it was new (no k's) but I got it for a good price because they needed to move it for new models coming soon. I'm starting to feel like I might have made a mistake. This has been an issue for me since day 1.

[Steve Blackdog 687]

Blimey.  I've just been out and tested my tyres cold.  26.5 psi in the front and 24.5 psi in the rear.  I had it MOT'd a couple of weeks back - obviously not something they checked.  Will put in air tomorrow and check every couple of days.

[embee 7,288]

The OE Metz Z8 tyres on my bike lost pressure, and it gradually got worse. The original owner had Ultraseal put in them the receipt was in the paperwork I got with the bike.

 

I fitted new tyres, just as well I did it myself. The rims were dreadfully scabby internally, especially round the valve pockets, the paint was attacked. I fully cleaned the rims, etch primed and top coated the whole wheel well on both wheels. No tyre fitter would have done anything other than washed them off. Since fitting the new valves and Mich PR4 tyres they have barely changed in pressure in 4k miles.

 

I'd never let Ultraseal or equivalent anywhere near a tyre of mine in future.

[Guest Peter]

I await the new tyre and hopefully things will improve. After this morning's post I checked the pressures again - rear is fine, but front had lost 3lb in one day. meanwhile, adjusting the throttle cable has markedly improved the "snatch" issue accelerating out of low speed (1 and 2 gear) turns, or in traffic. There was formerly a dead spot initially, and then the power would snatch and jerk the bike forward. I talked to the dealer about this issue too, and he said it was just how the bike was. Didn't seem right to me, and now I know it's not. These guys have been selling and servicing Hondas for a long time. Both these issues seem to be common knowledge to you NC owners and members. Sheesh.

[Guest bonekicker]

Peter it is very annoying when a dealer spends so much time fobbing us off rather than just adjusting the throttle cable--it takes minutes and the small but irritating problem is fixed--saying the that's how the bike is--is rather F******* silly to me 

[Trev 18,797]

The OE Metz Z8 tyres on my bike lost pressure, and it gradually got worse. The original owner had Ultraseal put in them the receipt was in the paperwork I got with the bike.

 

I fitted new tyres, just as well I did it myself. The rims were dreadfully scabby internally, especially round the valve pockets, the paint was attacked. I fully cleaned the rims, etch primed and top coated the whole wheel well on both wheels. No tyre fitter would have done anything other than washed them off. Since fitting the new valves and Mich PR4 tyres they have barely changed in pressure in 4k miles.

 

I'd never let Ultraseal or equivalent anywhere near a tyre of mine in future.

 

Like you I have removed and carefully cleaned from my NC wheels and will never use again in them. I use it in my (tubed) KDX and Enfield tyres and will continue to do so as no risk of damaging rims. What is strange though is that I have used it in my 2009 MT03 for 5 years with absolutely no issues ( no pressure loss even after a year in storage and last tyre change the inside of the rims looked fine) and the sames with other Jap alloy wheels, I am very sure that the Honda NC wheels are of variable quality/lower grade material

[Trev 18,797]

The dealer has come back to me and will replace the front tyre free. Either Michelin or Pirelli. Not the same as the rear which is Metzler (not sure of spelling). I guess I will take what is offered and hope for success.

Thanks for the comments guys. I imagine that the issue could be the Honda wheels, or the fact that the bike was just sitting in the shop for a long time before I acquired it - it was new (no k's) but I got it for a good price because they needed to move it for new models coming soon. I'm starting to feel like I might have made a mistake. This has been an issue for me since day 1.

 Peter, I know it's frustrating but you've got a great bike in the NC and everything can have it's niggles. I don't think it will be the tyres, more likely rim to bead seal or (most likely) valve to wheel seal. A good tyre fitter will clean up the wheel or you can get the tyres removed, you clean them up and take them back to hve tyres fitted. 

[dandemann8 776]

I like to check mine on a weekly basis, 40 PSI in the rear and 38 PSI in the front, alittle tip is to let all the air out and spray some WD-40 around the valve and wiggle it around abit and re-inflate which I find gives a nice clean seal.

[MikeBike 5,006]

Just to add my pressures on replacement PR4's (from new) haven't budged a jot in 3 months / 3000 miles since the first service.

Based on reviews, and the need for clear display, simplicity and accuracy I bought a "Draper 69924 Tyre Pressure Gauge with Flexible Hose."

£11 at http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-69924-Pressure-Gauge-Flexible/dp/B0002GV286

If using a tyre compressor beware the current needed may blow a fuse unless you have a suitable socket

(NOT the standard Honda one which is only 1A). My little Airman compressor is approx 10A!

It wasn't stated anywhere on the unit or instruction but I contacted them to find out.

Edited July 22, 2015 by MikeBike

[glencoeman 129]

The draper tyre pressure gauge is only available for that price if you agree to take the Prime service on trial which gives free postage. Prime costs quite a bit of money if you go ahead with it or forget to cancel at the end of the trial. If you do not take the Prime trial then you have to pay postage of £3.30 extra.

Edited July 22, 2015 by glencoeman

[fred_jb 10,269]

I use a small digital gauge purchased from Halfords and it reads to 0.5 psi. I don't check the bikes as much as I should like every ride but when I do through the summer when the tyre is cold the pressure is always where it should be per the manual. When the bikes are not used over the winter for say 4 months I loose about 1-3 psi which is normal for tyres and alloy wheels filled with normal air.

On my cars I have started using Nitrogen and the pressure does not move at all for 12 months. If it does go down you have a punchure and they are all alloy wheels. Maybe I should start using nitrogen on the bikes but you have to go to a garage and pay for the service. Also reduces corrosion on the alloy.

Not sure what the benefit of the nitrogen is pressure-wise as normal air is already about 80% nitrogen, though I guess excluding oxygen may help reduce corrosion which is really oxidation.   Are nitrogen molecules much bigger than oxygen ones so reducing pressure loss through porous alloy wheels?   I would doubt that.

 

Fred

[fred_jb 10,269]

I went for this one - because it has a screw on connector which I prefer rather than the push on types.    It has mixed reviews but a lot of people are happy with it so I thought I would risk £7.99 and will return it if it is not accurate.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0046R63GI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00

 

Fred

[embee 7,288]

Not sure what the benefit of the nitrogen is pressure-wise as normal air is already about 80% nitrogen, though I guess excluding oxygen may help reduce corrosion which is really oxidation.   Are nitrogen molecules much bigger than oxygen ones so reducing pressure loss through porous alloy wheels?   I would doubt that.

 

Fred

I think there's some salesmanship involved in the nitrogen fill business. As you say, air is nearly 80% nitrogen anyway.

 

The main aspect is that prepared nitrogen is dry, air contains a lot of water vapour (depending on humidity), if an air compressor doesn't have a dryer it goes into the tyre. There's good reason why aircraft use prepared nitrogen, and certainly it make sense for top line racing teams (I read they also use the nitrogen tanks to power the wheelnut guns etc.), the water vapour is bad news in all these applications. I've also read that the nitrogen used for tyres in garages can be up to 5% oxygen anyway, rather than industrial grade "pure" nitrogen (99 point something % pure).

 

On the permeability side, yes technically nitrogen does permeate membranes less than oxygen due, as I understand what I read, to the way it interacts with other molecules rather than simply a size issue. However for practical purposes in real world, tyres losing pressure on a regular basis will be down to other things, poor sealing at the valve or bead, and not an issue of permeability through the rubber carcass. Plus unless the tyre is purged of air first it'll still have significant residual oxygen just from the fitting exercise.

 

By all means use it if you wish, no harm done. Personally I'll save the money.

 

I just read a very interesting article on the dangers of nitrogen to animals/humans. Basically because we are exposed to 80% nitrogen anyway we have no alert systems to it. Carbon dioxide causes the breathing reaction, if you're exposed to high concentrations you react to it. Nitrogen on the other hand, although not poisonous, doesn't cause any reaction and in high concentrations (less than 6% oxygen) you die very quickly of lack of oxygen. Similarly in nature we are not exposed to high CO concentrations and we have no inbuilt reaction to it, no smell or taste and no breathing reaction, we just die from it hi-jacking the haemoglobin. Interesting stuff.

[MikeBike 5,006]

The draper tyre pressure gauge is only available for that price if you agree to take the Prime service on trial which gives free postage. Prime costs quite a bit of money if you go ahead with it or forget to cancel at the end of the trial. If you do not take the Prime trial then you have to pay postage of £3.30 extra.

 

Actually you can get it for less than I mentioned with free delivery. No prime trial, or order over £20 etc needed.

 

I checked my actual order and I bought from one of the other sellers listed on the right on the original link- Toolville Ltd for £9.25 including free delivery. I think the link here should be to the actual seller I used:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0002GV286/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2JO5FFYVIUQRB

Edited July 22, 2015 by MikeBike