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That question has really made me feel old.😀 They were allegedly the favourite weapon of the Teddy Boys. Now go on ask what a Teddy Boy was LOL

I'll come at this from another angle, I work in the industry just on heavy vehicles. The aim on the OE side is to reduce costs. Software is fantastic. Instead of three valves with three settings each, made by setting up a production line each time you switch variants, make one valve continuously and put a different programme in. Keep one as a spare and programme it when you change it. If you have the right kit the diagnostic stuff is childs play. Put the laptop on and it tells you which valve or cable it has a problem with. No more using your brain, blowing smoke down p

Are there any prizes for guessing what the springy thing sticking up out the top is, or who it came from (and how)? It looks short and curly to me. In the engine industry there is a lot of knowledge about the break-in process, and every manufacturer I've been involved with has their own version of essentially a similar procedure and knows exactly what the effects are and what condition it provides by the end of the process. In my experience no-one on any internet petrol head forum has ever wanted to hear it.

Sounds like a claim from the straight banana brigade. If in doubt, blame the ........ (Sorry Ted, nearly politics there).

Exactly. Regardless of the level, if the oil has just been changed it should look clear and bright, either golden yellow or red depending on what they use, but definitely not shi**y brown/black crud like that. Looks like someone has simply added a load of new oil without draining the old out.

That is absolutely outrageous. ....

Don't agree that the warranty is useless as both Sue and I have had work done under it with no problems. Sue even had the frame of her Hornet replaced after the warranty had expired. Due to a known problem with the Altanator on the CBF they replaced them on bikes up to seven years old. Only last week we met a guy at Kent M/Cs who had reported a small split in the seat cover of his VFR1200. Due to the distance he lives from the dealer he had only had to email them a picture of the seat. He just walked in with the old seat and out with a brand new one. Again no arguments. Im sure their are

You're not the first and definitely won't be the last to fall foul of incompetent dealer servicing. I know mistakes happen and errors will be made occasionally but it seems that no one double checks anything or seems to be able to be left alone to concentrate on the job in hand these days. DIY is the only real way to know for certain that a job has been done properly and even on a new bike where you are keeping up warranty requirements, if they screw up and something goes wrong they will always deny it so the warranty is pretty worthless anyway.

Nope. In the service book it says: "It is your responsibility to ensure that services are performed at the specified period and the service record is appropriately endorsed" So that is what I did. I carefully filled in the service book, noting the type of oil and filters used, and signed it in my best hand!

Honda do listen to customers. Make sure they are aware of your issues. Dealers have lost franchises after persistant poor service.

OBD in Europe is a joke. You will get away with any number of "interpretations" that effectively lock out the opposition. My main truck cable has a switch on it that connects in a different sequence for different manufacturers (they tell us, our PD guys need to know to help them). I have a software for each product. The independent stuff takes so much development to get past these blocks its much more basic. Fine if a sensor has cooked, not something you'd bet a couple of grand on to change an ECU. The only thing you can't do is set the lawyers on people who reverse engineer the co

I do! As we used to say 'back then' - "Lay it on me, baby"

Bit of thread IMHO possibly off the RHS of the drain plug as viewed in the photo. Every thread I've put a stainless bolt in has been tight as though the tool was worn or running at the wrong temperature . If you ran an actual metric tap down it would cut. Different standards in India? Getting the last bit of wear from tooling? Operators allowed to turn the feed up to make getting a bonus easier? The difference in ambient between Madras and Leeds? Air guns? Extra quarter turn to make sure the torque wrench really did click? I figure as there are no leaks, it goes better than expecte

I'm not sure Fred. Bear in mind that regs have changed an awful lot over the last few years, bikes lagged many years behind cars regarding OBD (on board diagnostics)/emissions etc, I'd suspect legal requirements concerning such things for bikes have changed a lot too. Remember that the whole purpose of OBD was to work towards in-use compliance with emission standards, i.e. it was an environmental issue not something to suit the manufacturers, you had to flag a fault/condition which would mean the exhaust emissions were not under control. I seem to remember the first leg

I think I have read that this regulation only applies to car manufacturers, who are obliged to make diagnostic equipment and codes available to allow third parties to carry out servicing, and so create at least some semblance of competition. I don't know why, but I have feeling that motorcycles are not included in this provision.

Exactly right. Had they not done so the motoring public would have been tied to the respective manufacturers. With all the expensive joy that entails..

In fact the opposite is true, some years ago the EU legislated that manufacturers had to make fault codes available and readable in order that consumers are not tied into the maunfacturers franchised dealer networks.

I remember chatting to someone at a business meeting who it turned had his own light aircraft. He told us the story of when he went for a flight after his plane had been serviced, when the engine failed, and he was lucky ( and I think skilful) to manage an emergency landing in a small field. It turned out the sump plug had not been properly replaced and fell out shortly after take off, dumping all the engine oil. The servicing company were landed with a very large bill!

You know how it is with autocorrect. Sometimes you just can't get your device to write what you really want to write. 😜

I had dealings with "*unts" a few years ago and I was left with the definite feeling that the dealers name was a misprint!!!

I often notice this with vehicle displays. We all know that direct sunlight from a certain angle almost always makes an LCD display very difficult to read. Now imagine that you are a vehicle designer and you know that the sun hits a display at a different angle depending on what longitude you live in and the time of day. Now you see the dilemma. There will always be difficult to read LCD unless you can always control the direction of all light sources. One way they found to overcome this problem it to incorporate LCD monitors into pilots helmets and have the display very close to the pilots e

Wise words o guru :0) btw what is a cut throat razor and can I 3d print one :0)

snigger!

Was that a litre too much in the bike ? That is impressive. Didn't know they took that much , the seals must've have been like Mr creosote. Waffer thin mint please. :0)

Running in isn't just about the engine. Its also about every other mechanical component. The only technical justification for having this on any modern engine is basically to provide a controlled period to see what falls off, if the tyres are covered in mould release agent, if the brake pads were contaminated etc. Cars you will notice have dispensed with the whole thing. Their filters may be bigger, but if engine is run then flushed at the factory I don't see why bikes can't be the same. If I was Mr. Honda I'd offer "pre-run-in engines" for two hundred quid extra and make the first

BTW I do hope you plan to wash the measuring jug before tea time Andy

I use hunts and have done for years. If I were you John I'd be on the phone to them tuesday morning. This workmanship is unaceptable, and the service manager (andy) really needs to know about this. That is not new oil.!!

I would be quoting the Consumer Rights Act on a registered post letter to a director of that dealership and suggesting life will be less complicated for him if he refunds what you paid and adds thd cost of the replacement oil. Broken Motorcycles Worldwide inc. invented this level of service. If you want **** buy a chinese moped off the auction site. Its going to be better made and less expensive when petrol and matches is the only thing that's going to preserve your sanity. Andy

Look at the colour of that sludge.

Interesting.. My dad had an old Ford once that needed similar treatment to get him to work!

If you switch your display from miles to kilometres you can easily go 1,000 without any problem.

I can never fathom why owners of new bikes seem so reluctant to run them in properly (hard) as they never seem to keep them long enough anyway for any issues to occur.

I remember many years ago reading that every Ferrari engine was turned over by an electric motor for 80 hours before being fitted in the car, so the new owner didn't have the bother of having to break the new engine in!

I too went to the original Hinckley Triumph factory in1997 and saw the new bikes being run up, it was quite quick and was to check everything worked, gears etc as much as anything else. Yes, and I too bought a Triumph, the first of three so far!

My visit there worked out expensive as well. on our visit to the BMW factory in Spandau the new engines weren't exactly treated with kid gloves either.

My opinion, for what its worth. Sympathetic riding a new engine to me is a bad thing. You really need to maintain pressure on those rings to get a good seal. If you google running in there are hundreds of opinions out there. I can only go by what I know and have seen. When we fit new pistons/rings to freshly honed cylinders on planes you have to work it hard, or it polishes the bores and you get high oil useage. I have had to replace all the rings and re-hone cylinders when the customer was 'sympathetic'. We eventually invested in a test cell to work the engines hard properly befor

we invest a lot of dosh in our bikes and want to look after them, but I think Honda engines are quite 'unburstable' these days. The running in process has relaxed over the past 30 years due to improved manufacturing. If it was a Harley,or a bullet I'd run it in very carefully, but think of how many new Honda demo's get thrashed from day one, and go on to cover big miles being very reliable.

Probably, yes. "Smooth" and "sweet running" are subjective terms and I'm unaware of any mechanism by which "smoothness" can be affected by the running in process. Smoothness comes from factors related to balance of the moving parts, plus coupling modes from the engine into the frame - i.e. it is principally about the design of the engine. As for "sweet running", I'm not sure what that is, but - if it exists at all - it is surely more about good fuelling, etc. Still - this is only my understanding. Happy to change my mind if someone can offer a good account of what exactly goes on.

Full throttle yes, but I would be loathed to use it under heavy/full load, but it's not my bike so it's not my call. Several of the bikes I've had since new I've always been careful when breaking them in, and several times when they've been in for a service I've been told that they have very smooth and sweet running engines, coincidence, maybe? My dad gave me a good piece of advice when breaking in a new engine etc., When on a long flat or downhill stretch of road, lift the throttle momentarily to allow it to be unloaded as it helps to draw some oil into the upper cylinder and lubric

I was already thinking on going DIY when the dealers mechanic was taken suddenly and unexpectedly on paternity leave (don't ask, its Wakefield). On the plus side I know what I'm doing and actually give a flying telegraph pole. On the minus side, while every single dealer will try and get out of any warranty claim and you might need a lawyer anyway, I've decreased my chances of making a hassle free claim. Having found they'd overfilled the oil and missed an incorrectly fitted air filter cover I'm happy with my decision. I may have an advantage in that I can show I've worked on vehicles for 20-

You didn't take that out did you? Its supposed to be there. Specially formulated tolerance and clearances filler with added lapping polish to take off those machining edges Highly technical stuff

Sorry if this is a daft question....wouldn't that invalidate the warranty?...I thought the first service had to be carried out by a bike dealer/garage.

you can use full throttle after 300 miles, as its ran in by then. Going up to around 800 miles to the first service wont do any damage.

You should see what came out of the Hurley-Pugh at 600 miles Andy

The colour of the oil would be a good indication of if it was changed or not? I hope they did change it as the initial oil is designed to bed the engine and transmission in, so needs to be changing to take all the tiny bits of debris away.

Mine went in at 800, and then they failed to carry it out correctly and refunded me the entire cost when I complained. Not convinced the oil was changed as when it was checked it was higher than it should have been so suggests they may have just topped it up.

I did my first service myself at 680 miles, two filters and engine oil changed so I saved more than £100 as well as the hassle of taking the bike to a dealer and hanging around. I remember the last first service on my previous bike when there was an item on the bill for £6 for grease (what for?) plus one and a half hours for labour, WTF.

In mechanical terms I wouldn't worry, its probably another 600. If the dealer can't keep you mobile I'd offer them the choice of servicing it before 700 and stamping the book, letting an independent of your choice do it and stamp the book as though the dealer did it, loan you a bike or give you your money back. I think I spent three hours last month working for Hurley-Pugh after a similar conversation. At least thats what the warranty record on their computer system will show after their mechanic wasn't available. Andy

Certainly before you can start using full throttle under a heavy load. It's mainly the oil that gets changed at the first service, it's not meant to be run for too many miles. If in doubt ask your Honda dealer?

Yes me, it's crap. I thought at first it was faulty, but no.