Garage fitted wrong sprockets to DCT

[maoleoin 12]

Just picked my 750x DCT from garage with the right sprockets now, although still need to check, after a load of inconvenience in dropping the bike back to them cos they couldn't pick up. They fitted 17 front 43 back to DCT should have been 16 front 39 rear (I know you all know this but just for clarity), and they blame the supplier giving them the wrong sprockets.

 

So questions,

 

Should the mechanic have noticed the wrong sprockets and not fitted ? Difference between 17/43 and 16/39 should have been obvious in my opinion but having not seen them side by side I'll like to canvass opinion.

 

Would the fact I hit the rev limiter show on diagnostics ?  I thought gear change was bit clunky after I picked it up first but really discovered the issue accelerating hard to get on motorway and hitting rev limiter in 4th, not good !

 

Am I right to be thoroughly annoyed about this, to the point of giving them bad reviews ? Their after service was bad to the point of sending me a text after closing to say the bike was ready to pick up, neither did they ring me to say the replacement sprockets were in I had to phone them.

Edited June 13, 2016 by maoleoin

[Tex 36,817]

There's not actually a huge difference in 17/43 and 16/39. 2.4:1 v 2.5:1

From a mechanic's perspective he will fit what he's given

Hitting the rev limiter won't hurt anything (that's why it's there!) but how did you hit it on a DCT? Surely it would just change up?

[maoleoin 12]

Thanks Simon,

 

Not worried about hitting the rev limiter, done that before on other bikes, just never achieved it on the DCT no idea if the bike would allow it in normal circumstances but I guess the different ratio sufficiently confused it, such that hitting rev limiter possible but bike not able to drop revs sufficient to allow a gear change, did it to me twice one took me by surprise in fast lane of M5, slowing down to drop revs safely was a bit tricky, second time was a more of a controlled experiment on empty good road. My concern is that I still have some warranty remaining, if I have a problem it gets plugged in, they will see it has rev limited which shouldn't be possible in auto mode and just void warranty.

 

This is not a main dealer (Fowlers in Bristol, not my preference to use), the guy who fitted is a partner in a 2 band outfit who were independently recommended to me, by previous owner and a work colleague.

Edited June 13, 2016 by maoleoin

[Guest Fletch]

Had this years ago on a honda XL 185, Wrong sprockets fitted but this time the gearing was to high. Bike didn't have enough power to pull 5th gear.

Any mechanic should have the basic knowledge of gearing.

Your question ought to be did he notice ? Did he fit them anyway.

As for showing up on the diagnostic kit, don't know the answer, feel it's unlikley.

Sometimes manufacturers deliberatly over gear to keep noise down, better top speed and better fuel consumption figures. Would be interested to know what yours does if you haven't already changed them.

[maoleoin 12]

Hi Fletch,

 

Your question ought to be did he notice ? Did he fit them anyway.

 

This had occurred to me but didn't want to lead the question, two alternative scenario

 

1. He didn't notice and just fitted

2. He did notice and just fitted anyway

 

Not sure which is worse, one incompetent and the other more deliberate and cynical, given this was an experienced mechanic reluctantly I think the latter is more likely.

 

As for showing up on diagnostic, I have experience with Honda cars and know that it does on those. Top speed was better, fuel economy definitely better although chain was at the limit so new chain could explain some of this but also those figures are probably not reliable cos I think I agree with other discussion that the speed and mileage is a calculation rather than measured at the wheel.

[Guest Krzysztof]

Either way I wouldn't complain if they sort it out for you.

Most likely they haven't noticed it as they do a lot of different bikes and the difference of 2 teeth is marginal.

And even if they have noticed a lot of people ask for different sprocket size anyway.

Genuine human mistake in my opinion that will cost them money.

[ScaredyCat 1,659]

Hi Fletch,

 

 

This had occurred to me but didn't want to lead the question, two alternative scenario

 

1. He didn't notice and just fitted

2. He did notice and just fitted anyway

 

Not sure which is worse, one incompetent and the other more deliberate and cynical, given this was an experienced mechanic reluctantly I think the latter is more likely.

 

As for showing up on diagnostic, I have experience with Honda cars and know that it does on those. Top speed was better, fuel economy definitely better although chain was at the limit so new chain could explain some of this but also those figures are probably not reliable cos I think I agree with other discussion that the speed and mileage is a calculation rather than measured at the wheel.

 

3. He might have thought you'd requested that ratio for a reason.

[Tex 36,817]

Genuine mistake. My old dad was prone to say "The man who never made a mistake - never made anything"

No idea if diagnostics can pick up a rev limiter, but if they can then gawd knows what they're going to make of the manual NC 700S I took out for a demo ride! the poor thing was on the limiter all the time..

[maoleoin 12]

Mistakes happen (I know cos I make lots) but I am not feeling benevolent to them for several reasons,

 

When I booked the bike in I said it was the automatic and they needed to be careful on the sprocket sizes.

Wednesday I rang them and said the rear sprocket was wrong and probably the front too, all they said was the supplier probably sent the wrong ones and they would check and ring me back, they didn't ring me, Monday I had to ring them and they then said the replacement sprockets were in.

They do bike pickups, but were 'too busy' to pick up mine despite it being their mistake and knowing it was really inconvenient for me to get the bike to them. They offered to do it while I wait but each time it was convenient for me they were too busy. Saturday I just dropped the bike down ask for it back as possible.

The sprockets were replaced on Saturday but they txt'ed me to say the bike was ready for pick after they had closed shop, so I couldn't pick up, given the circumstances a phone call would have been the minimum I would expect and maybe they could have waited the 20 mins it would have taken me to get to them.

When I collected today I was given the key and no paperwork, when I asked for paperwork because extra work was done on the bike they did not want to generate an invoice because they had done it for free.

 

But above all they did not apologise for the mistake until today during the heated discussion on pick up, when I requested the paperwork.

 

I do realise I may be sounding awkward and unreasonable, but I just expected better, and still need to figure how to get my car back from near there, and after the ride back home I am still not sure it's right, will have to count teeth and chain links just reassure myself.

 

I'll do it myself in future with help of all the good info and people on here, just need to find someone I can trust for the stuff I can't do.

 

Sorry for the rant, think I being affected by the Ireland own goal too !

[DMB 1,341]

You don't sound "awkward and unreasonable" to me.  Sounds like the service you have received has been less than the standard one might fairly expect to receive.

[djsb 491]

The correct sprockets (according to my user manual) for the NC750XDE (DCT) are 17t front and 39t rear. Both can be ordered from (JT sprockets) B and C express.

[scara 354]

Sounds to me like they have lost a customer not to mention the potential ones you may have given them by word of mouth.

[Guest Krzysztof]

@maoleoin - from the last post it looks like you have right to complain.

Mistakes happens but not everybody can deal with them proffesionaly.

To reduce the risk I order my JT + DID sprockets and chain set myself that is cheaper and higher spec + the right size for sure. Most dealers put 1h labour for it anyway.

[Tex 36,817]

Kevin, it's perfectly OK for you to be pissed off with them!

I'm not the one who suffered the poor service (and it was poor, no doubt about it). I suppose I always try to see both sides of a story and a lifetime spent working in the motor trade means I, possibly, lean just a little towards the side of the dealers..

One (prominent) BMW dealer principle refers to customers as 'The enemy'. I know how he feels (but still think it's time he retired!). If I lived nearer I would offer you a lift to pick your car up, which is the least you're entitled to from your workshop.

[Rogue 831]

Funny how so many businesses do not seem to understand that how they deal with a dn rectify a mistake is actually a massive opportunity for them to actually improve how the customer views them. A company who have made a mistake but rectified it quickly, efficiently or with good and fair communication about options etc will often stand the chance of being held in even higher regard than a company who have never made a mistake as the customer knows they can trust them to rectify any issues should they ever arise

[maoleoin 12]

Thanks Folks,

 

I've calmed down now that I have my car back on the drive (cheers for the thought Tex, just needed to inconvenience the other half which I will pay for some time in the future) and hopefully don't have to deal with them again. Yup they have lost at least two customers already as a result, me and the work colleague that recommended me to them. As you all have picked up on it wasn't the original mistake that really annoyed me but how they dealt with it afterwards. A phone call after they talked to the supplier and arranged the new sprockets along with an apology for getting it wrong probably would have defused the situation, but everything that followed just annoyed me more.

 

The bike seems to be riding OK but my confidence in it is still building, gear changes definitely smoother but sometimes the pick up seems a little jerky but that may just be me.  The only thing I am wondering is if it is worth doing an ECU reset, as if the bike does have any learning capability it is probably as confused as me, I still need to check the front and see what is on there. I just hope it is 17 and I haven't confused the issue more, I only ever told them that I checked the back and that was wrong didn't check the front, that was their job. Not sure where I got the 16 info now but was fairly sure on it, should be 112 links in chain, confirmed that with them before heated discussion kicked off.

 

Anyway I will be learning how to taking the front sprocket cover off and counting teeth and links later tonight, along with sorting the Loobman which they didn't seem to want to reposition (just another annoyance), along with some other fettling I've been putting off.

[Rocker66 34,454]

.

 

 

Sorry for the rant, think I being affected by the Ireland own goal too !

Thanks for that I was just beginning to calm down about it. i couldn't even bring myself to look at the sports pages today.

Maybe Wales will cheer me up by beating England As the saying goes when it comes to International sport I only support two teams R.O.I. ( or Ireland in the case of rugby) and anyone who is playing England:) 

Glad that you finally got the bike sorted by the way

Edited June 14, 2016 by Rocker66

[maoleoin 12]

Sorry Rocker, I feel your pain, I am Dublin born and bred. I got home to watch the tail end of the second half and couldn't believe the score 1-0, brilliant I thought this will cheer me up, and settled down to watch the rest of the match.

 

I'll be cheering for Wales too, but looking forward to a famous victory against Italy, hopefully I will get to watch the whole match, 1-0 will do the trick !

[Mikdent 4,070]

After reading the initial post, if it were me I'd be royally peeved about it, as said, it's either incompetence or just not giving a shit.

Thumbs down from me, whoever it is, I would never go to them again.

Hearing these tales of motorsickle woe and fret, makes me feel really lucky that I'm so close to Kent Motorcycles, yes I know I do go on about them a lot, but there's a reason for that.

[Guest phantom309]

this rings a bell with me too as since having new chain an sprockets i too have hit rev limiter twice .....700x DCT...?

[Guest phantom309]

just counted 43 teeth rear. book says 39 and 16 front .....another trip to dealer , still waiting for part from there last mistake with a rubber boot on the caliper that got pinched while refitting after new fork seals fitted. an split it ..??????   

[Guest phantom309]

There's not actually a huge difference in 17/43 and 16/39. 2.4:1 v 2.5:1

From a mechanic's perspective he will fit what he's given

Hitting the rev limiter won't hurt anything (that's why it's there!) but how did you hit it on a DCT? Surely it would just change up?

i may have same problem although mine goes to 5th an if you are making progress doesn't change up to 6th an hits limiter . at which point i slowed down till it did change up ...as hitting the limiter on an auto is something i wouldn't expect...

[Tex 36,817]

i may have same problem although mine goes to 5th an if you are making progress doesn't change up to 6th an hits limiter . at which point i slowed down till it did change up ...as hitting the limiter on an auto is something i wouldn't expect...

That's really odd. I would have assumed that the ECU would trigger an up shift based purely on revs and throttle opening. Blowed if I can see how a change in overall gearing would affect that. But it would seem that it does! How strange.

[trisaki 2,029]

If you ever move Sussex direction please get in touch as I run my own m/cycle wshop near Arundel , kettles always on ! 16 tooth front is on the 700 17 on the 750 , I have two NCs

[maoleoin 12]

Andy,

 

Yup that's the exact symptoms I'd be interested to know the dealers excuse.

 

Mark,

 

Would love to be still around your area, used to work for Ricardo's in Shoreham, I'd know a lot more about engines if I'd stayed there but it was not to be. Clarify one thing for me how different is a 39 to 43 sprocket, I am guessing size and weight would be sufficient for someone to go 'not sure that's the same as I took off' before they fit.

 

Tex,

 

I have a theory, it's dual clutch so the programming needs to be predictive is the next change up or down, I am guessing with the extra gearing there is a window where the second clutch doesn't change predicting that blip in throttle is temporary and stays in the lower gear, rev limiter gets hits but the logic is not sufficient to do the change until the revs drop or there is some safety built in. Not all acceleration would trigger the trouble only the enthusiastic sort. I am guessing sports mode would behave differently but TBH I wasn't brave enough to try it.