Oil Level Check - Right or Wrong?

[Slowboy 20,532]

Yep, just checked a few manuals from rides past, and every Honda I've owned, where they had a dipstick was used dipstick unscrewed with cap resting against the threads.

the current stable is;

Honda C90 - dipstick unscrewed

Triumph Daytona - dipstick screwed in

Kawasaki GT750 - dipstick sat on seat only as it has a sight glass.😁

 

[Tex 36,817]

The new Bonnie has a sight glass. I had forgotten how wonderfully convenient that is!  

[Andy m 23,588]

The Hurley-Pugh has a glass. A fag paper under the front wheel or one leg of the sidestand makes the difference between a full glass and empty! I've had to resort to the spirit level.

 

Andy

[embee 7,288]

1 hour ago, Andy m said:

.... A fag paper under the front wheel or one leg of the sidestand makes the difference between a full glass and empty!

Ah, such is your philosophy of life, Grasshopper.

[old commuter 87]

My Suzuki Inazuma had a sight Glass also and it was easy to use. Now the water level!!!! Nice bike though

[Graham NZ 1,186]

300ml of oil is quite a bit and may be more than the safe operating range shown on the dipstick.  That range on my Buell is only 150ml.  Sight windows are fine provided they're clear which is not always the case as they age whereas a dipstick is infallible if used correctly.  If a bike comes only with a sidestand it's a guessing game to tell when it's truly upright.  Again, my Buell has the level measured with the stick screwed in and the bike on the sidestand.  A problem with not screwing a stick in is that it can be inserted at different angles.

 

An NC is a lot more trouble to maintain than an XB Buell.

[Bart Stilgo 428]

I think when I picked up my NC (Not a Honda franchise and 300 miles on the clock) there were errors in the oil level after the garage did the first oil change.  Even on the centre stand and the engine cold there was no indication on the dip stick.  I still have concerns over the NC engine and am due to go to a Honda garage for them to listen to the engine when it is hot this week.  On hot tick over it sounds like a bag of padded nails in a tin (not a metallic sound but a soft rattle).  When cold it runs and sounds smooth.  When hot it runs without fault and everything is working as it should but is sounds like a muted cam chain rattle when at tick over.  I cant really hear what it sounds like when I am riding.  The comment by Coopers is ringing alarm bells AND I have vibration that I didn't notice when the bike was ridden for the first 2000 miles.  Yes I have applied the spanners everywhere I can and I have moved stuff on the handle bars and done all the stuff listed. elsewhere,  but no change.  And I have been vigilant with the grip too.  It started with handle bar vibration and now is foot pegs and seat.  

Can these events be linked to the original oil problem? 

The oil level was low on picking up the bike and then topped up and then rode home 250 miles.  Bike on the centre stand.  Leave five minutes and then check (according to the book!) No oil showing.  Engine hot sounded like a bag of muted spanners.  Added 500ml to get the level right.

The funny thing is when its hot the DCT works really well and really smoothly better than when its cold.

I check oil every week on the centre stand and the level since it was correct has only changed very slightly over the 3000 miles.  A very small top up (under 100ml)and back to the correct high level mark.  The oil is clear still with a very slight change in colour.  Its getting darker.

Am I paranoid?

The sound has not got worse or better over time.

Vibration begins at 2750 rpm

Vibration only when under load.  None going down hill (DCT remember) but vibration when load comes back on for uphill.

Original Tyres !  But the front has some funny wear on the diamond tread pattern.  The leading edge wear on the point of the diamond in the centre part of the tyre is higher than the trailing edge wear of the diamond.  Tyre pressures as the book.

Chain tension within spec and the chain looks like new with a weekly clean and re-oil. 

I haven't checked the plugs as there is no plug spanner in the tool kit!  What size socket do I need?

 

Cheers

[Tex 36,817]

11 hours ago, Graham NZ said:

An NC is a lot more trouble to maintain than an XB Buell.

 

But a lot easier to ride if you have a bad wrist!  

[Tex 36,817]

1 hour ago, Bart Stilgo said:

Am I paranoid?

 

Probably. A bit anyway.

 

Not having the correct oil level may, indeed, have done some damage. But without a complete strip down it's impossible to tell. Truthfully? it's unlikely.

 

The NC range are disappointingly noisy (for a Honda). My Integra used to sound awful. Really awful. But it flew, so I never bothered.

 

Vibration? Yes, some NCs seem to do it more than others. One poor soul spent a fortune trying to 'cure' it and got nowhere.

 

Your tyre wear sounds quite 'normal'. That's just how they wear (unless you ride like you have a policeman on the pillion).

 

Relax! Enjoy the bike.  

[trisaki 2,029]

Check for tight links in the chain  aim for 35 -to 40mm chain slack at the tightest  point in the chain  

[SteveThackery 3,090]

What oil did you use?  If it's 10W-40 it's too thick and makes the gearshift jerky when cold.  It should be 10W-30.

[ste7ios 469]

2 hours ago, Bart Stilgo said:

I think when I picked up my NC (Not a Honda franchise and 300 miles on the clock) there were errors in the oil level after the garage did the first oil change.  Even on the centre stand and the engine cold there was no indication on the dip stick.  I still have concerns over the NC engine and am due to go to a Honda garage for them to listen to the engine when it is hot this week.  On hot tick over it sounds like a bag of padded nails in a tin (not a metallic sound but a soft rattle).  When cold it runs and sounds smooth.  When hot it runs without fault and everything is working as it should but is sounds like a muted cam chain rattle when at tick over.  I cant really hear what it sounds like when I am riding.  The comment by Coopers is ringing alarm bells AND I have vibration that I didn't notice when the bike was ridden for the first 2000 miles.  Yes I have applied the spanners everywhere I can and I have moved stuff on the handle bars and done all the stuff listed. elsewhere,  but no change.  And I have been vigilant with the grip too.  It started with handle bar vibration and now is foot pegs and seat.  

Can these events be linked to the original oil problem? 

The oil level was low on picking up the bike and then topped up and then rode home 250 miles.  Bike on the centre stand.  Leave five minutes and then check (according to the book!) No oil showing.  Engine hot sounded like a bag of muted spanners.  Added 500ml to get the level right.

The funny thing is when its hot the DCT works really well and really smoothly better than when its cold.

I check oil every week on the centre stand and the level since it was correct has only changed very slightly over the 3000 miles.  A very small top up (under 100ml)and back to the correct high level mark.  The oil is clear still with a very slight change in colour.  Its getting darker.

Am I paranoid?

The sound has not got worse or better over time.

Vibration begins at 2750 rpm

Vibration only when under load.  None going down hill (DCT remember) but vibration when load comes back on for uphill.

Original Tyres !  But the front has some funny wear on the diamond tread pattern.  The leading edge wear on the point of the diamond in the centre part of the tyre is higher than the trailing edge wear of the diamond.  Tyre pressures as the book.

Chain tension within spec and the chain looks like new with a weekly clean and re-oil. 

I haven't checked the plugs as there is no plug spanner in the tool kit!  What size socket do I need?

 

Cheers

NCs vibrate at higher RPMs, it's normal, by design, to give some character to the engine.

 

Be sure that the oil specs are correct: 4-stroke engine oil SAE: 10W-30 or 10W-40, JASO T903: MA, API: SG or later (never use "Energy Conserving" oils).

Honda recommends 10W-30 in the owners manual, but 10W-40 is accepted too (noted in the service manual) and it's ok in hotter climates.

 

Notably some oils may sound rougher, and some softer. Motul 5100 in my bike sounds ok to me.

 

You can't tell anything by oil color. Only an oil analysis may tell you about the condition of the oil and the engine.

 

 

Don't be so paranoid... Just ride! Enjoy!

[Bart Stilgo 428]

I have no idea what oil was put into the bike.  I have an idea to do just a oil change at 4000 miles (no filters) just to be sure the oil is absolutely correct.

Overkill ?

Oil and Filters?

 

Had a good ride out yesterday

Exeter-Dawlish-Teignmouth- Newton Abbot- Moretonhampsted- Whiddon Down and back to Exeter.

Enjoyable and a good lesson 5 on the IAM stuff

Nearly test time  

Bike behaving brilliantly, minimal vibration and really satisfying flying around Devon.

 

Thanks for the feedback

[ste7ios 469]

Just ask them. If it's out of the required spec, demand to replace the oil with a correct one...

 

There's no need to replace the filters.

[larryblag 14,236]

On 28/04/2017 at 14:20, Andy m said:

Ask for the 300ml of oil back. Your method is right and the oil is your property!

 

I have an "end of warranty service". Its usually at about 3000 miles when I can't be bothered with the dealer and go DIY! 

 

Andy

And is there any wonder sometimes?

 

The sad thing is that the dealer probably knew you were correct but cannot simply bring themselves to admit that they were wrong - such is their arrogance.

 

I once had a Suzuki SX4 (car). Brand new, and after a couple of weeks I could smell diesel and see traces of it on the nearside front sill. The dealer gave me a loan car whilst they investigated.

Their service manager rang me up the next day to say I'd probably ran over some diesel on a garage forecourt - I insisted that wasn't the case, there was far too much and asked him to look further into it.

Two weeks later!  he rang me again and asked me to pop in. They had taken the engine out!! and had finally found the cause of the leak but insisted all the fuel supply lines had to be changed because "cavitation" had caused a great deal of damage and that is why it'd taken so long to repair. I remained tight-lipped but wanted to tell him he was talking ****ks . The car had only covered a few hundred miles by that point. He obviously thought that if he threw in a few buzzwords it'd dazzle me and show my obvious ignorance - rather than simply telling me the truth from the start that they had had a great deal of trouble finding the source of the leak (which I'd have accepted and been thankful for their honesty). I simply hadn't the energy to take him on though - I do indeed know what cavitation is, he was basically insulting my intelligence. I never did find out where they'd found the leak to be coming from.

Fidiots!

[larryblag 14,236]

14 hours ago, Graham NZ said:

 A problem with not screwing a stick in is that it can be inserted at different angles.

Unless you rest it on the threads as suggested?

You're right about a sight glass though. I used to have a hell of a job with the 1150RT - trying to keep it vertical whilst simultaneously looking through the age-darkened glass. Two man job it was.

[larryblag 14,236]

On 28/04/2017 at 15:07, Smudger said:

I agree with Murray (embee) and the comments above. The manual is correct.

I always measure the 'exact' amount of oil required as per Honda handbook when I do the oil change.

Then I check again using the dip-stick method described in the manual.

The reading is always within tolerance.

If I put the dipstick all the way home and read the level, it is too high.

Hope that helps.

-Mark-

Thanks Mark, that's really helpful to the OP. With an empty sump, measuring the correct amount before putting it in the bike - I'll bet it shows almost spot-on with the dipstick correctly used.

A good starting point anyway and would be no more than a few ml short - certainly not 300ml!

[Andy m 23,588]

Cavitation? You'll need the flux capacitor resetting and a full rebuild of the thrunging sprocket defibrilator if you've got that. Don't let them fob you off with reconditioning the critical assembly or terminal case as it can cause a distended flotation bladder and associated throup.

 

Andy

[larryblag 14,236]

The web top trunion should be properly seated in order to avoid the thrunging sprocket from over-travelling the cardan shaft end stop. That way madness lies...

[fj_stuart 4,759]

On 28/07/2017 at 16:37, fj_stuart said:

When I got my CBF250 this was one of the first things I checked in the manual. The level is checked with the dipstick screwed OUT.

 

Not a problem on my other bikes (FJ1200/SV650) they have a great invention - a sight window!

 

I forgot to say that my FJ1200 has an oil level (as opposed to oil pressure) warning light. Very handy on a bike with six figure miles that burns a little oil.

[Walklikegump 284]

On 02/05/2017 at 22:27, Andy m said:

Excess tends to blow out of breather holes

Well after underfilling when new and at the 600 service, they look like they have overfilled. 

Same level position and now it is filling the whole flattened bit.  

I have done a 200 miles with it like this. 

So  is it too much, do I need to drain some or can I let it be. I'm off to the continent on Saturday and should do at least a 1000 miles out there.  

I haven't noticed any blow out from breathers. 

[DCTPaul 629]

Of all the bikes and scoots I have owned, the ones with a dipstick rather than a sight glass, have all been to wipe then rest the dipstick in...

Except the Gilly Runner and that stated 'screw In' in the handbook...

 

NC's are rest on... I have just been reading the owners and maintenance books before I pick my new bike up tomorrow.

 

I always check the oil by resting the dipstick on, then 'unscrewing' the dipstick to get the oil level all around the dipstick, as most go in at an angle...

Edited September 5, 2019 by DCTPaul

[Grumpy old man 4,682]

If you're sure you have checked the oil when the bike is level then I'd be tempted to remove some but not sure I'd drain it. In the past I've siphoned it out using a syringe a bought from the local £ shop (as used for for baking).

[Eddie17 545]

I was thinking of using the squeeze trigger off an  old  auto glyn cleaner bottle if I need to .(dont know if that will work) I am finding it awkward to find a level spot in drive or shed.One side of dipstick  shows oil between marks other side slightly above.

Was thinking take some oil out and go find a  true level area somewhere then top up if need . 

 

Finding getting a level reading difficult and dont want to go too far until sure.

 

[alhendo1 3,053]

 I keep and rinse out the plungers that come with the plastic bottles of bathroom hand soap ...they're handy for that kind of thing...it shifts oil no problem in small amounts...perfect for finding the right level ...you might need to use a bit of clear tube as well ..I've used it for draining the oil out my lawnmower..saves tipping it over👍