First MOT: Failure & 3 Advisories!

[Rocker66 34,466]

29 minutes ago, machinman said:

Mot or not, its the users responsibility to make sure its roadworthy.

Their are always going to be scenarios of "what if".

We all know that. The point Tex was raising and I was trying to make was why do 3 year old vehicles need an MOT if much older ones don’t. It should be either all vehicles over 3 years old need an MOT or do away with it all together. Who decides what the magic number is for vehicles not needing an MOT and how do they come by it? If for example it is 25 years why should it be assumed that a 25 year old one would be better maintained than a 24 year old one. As The MOT only proves that it was road worthy on the day of the test why bother with having one at all.

[Mr Toad 9,022]

3 hours ago, nelmo said:

 

Are there any places that do ONLY MOTs?

 

 

 

There are plenty of such places and not just the council run ones.

 

I take my bikes to this place.

 

https://www.alanstestcentre.co.uk/

 

There's another MOT only place a few minutes away down the road.

 

http://weonlymot.co.uk/

 

I have my car done at a small independent garage that has been servicing, repairing my cars since the late 70s. It's a family run business now run by the son of the chap who used to do my spannering. 

[Tonyj 6,907]

1 hour ago, machinman said:

Its as good as the individual, could be plumber, sparky, doctor.

If someone says you need to spend money, challenge them and ask the right questions.

Get a friend to help, ask google, youtube.

 

Plumber,sparky ,doctor . Blimey that's some tradesmen you've got there :0) 

[Spindizzy 7,109]

1 hour ago, Rocker66 said:

We all know that. The point Tex was raising and I was trying to make was why do 3 year old vehicles need an MOT if much older ones don’t. It should be either all vehicles over 3 years old need an MOT or do away with it all together. Who decides what the magic number is for vehicles not needing an MOT and how do they come by it? If for example it is 25 years why should it be assumed that a 25 year old one would be better maintained than a 24 year old one. As The MOT only proves that it was road worthy on the day of the test why bother with having one at all.

 

Probably risk based. The lower number of older bikes against typical mileage against type of rider. Probably is a magical number and its a risk threshold thats accepted. Whereas a bunch of middle aged hoons on scooters is a greater risk on newer machinery, there are a lot more of them.

 

 

 

[Guest machinman]

1 hour ago, Rocker66 said:

We all know that. The point Tex was raising and I was trying to make was why do 3 year old vehicles need an MOT if much older ones don’t. It should be either all vehicles over 3 years old need an MOT or do away with it all together. Who decides what the magic number is for vehicles not needing an MOT and how do they come by it? If for example it is 25 years why should it be assumed that a 25 year old one would be better maintained than a 24 year old one. As The MOT only proves that it was road worthy on the day of the test why bother with having one at all.

Whats the point in decimals?

[Spindizzy 7,109]

2 minutes ago, machinman said:

Whats the point in decimals?

Probably ten 

[Andy m 23,569]

Having seen the state of many an MOT station roller tester and the ability of the employees to interpret the results, I'd ignore those advisories unless you see something with your own eyes. 

 

Removing the MOT on 40 year old vehicles is the first step in updating the test. You can't test Electronic Stability Control with a toffee hammer and you can't test a Ford Cortina with a plug in test station. The 150000 mile Transit will not be rusting, but the fact the relief driver expects ESC when the warning lamp went pop 30000 miles before the ECU failed is a much greater risk than a 500 miles a year Sunday afternoon drive. There are many more Transits than Cortinas. An automated test has to be fairer, that brake test would come with a number not "S'bit wobbly mite, wanna buy a disc?"

 

The database of advisories now of course means the next MOT station will be out to sell you a set of discs, but that's a year away.

 

Andy

 

 

[outrunner 4,457]

I have an old bike that is MOT/TAX free but I get it tested anyway, especially as I am putting it up for sale soon, so with an MOT prospective buyers will know it is OK.

 

 

Andy.

 

 

 

[MikeBike 5,006]

36 minutes ago, Andy m said:

The database of advisories now of course means the next MOT station will be out to sell you a set of discs, but that's a year away.

That's what I don't like. To be hones I was going to take it to the place that did my car as they do the council vehicles and are an MOT station.

I believe all council MOT stations have to offer MOT's to the public. That's how I found them I called the council and asked where they got their MOT's done.

But at the last minute I thought best done by the dealer that knows the bike, specs for example what the chain slack should be etc and did the recent work.

 

[MikeBike 5,006]

6 minutes ago, outrunner said:

I have an old bike that is MOT/TAX free but I get it tested anyway, especially as I am putting it up for sale soon, so with an MOT prospective buyers will know it is OK.

 

 

Andy.

 

 

 

or haggle you down for new front & rear disks/pads etc if it gets the same advisory (quote was >£400)

[Wedgepilot 727]

I had the "fluctuation of brake effort" advisory at my last MOT, the tester said it was normal with wavy disks and not to worry about it! The brakes feel fine to me, and they certainly don't feel warped.

 

My other advisory was for a non standard loud exhaust  😁

 

[electric_monk 270]

7 hours ago, Rocker66 said:

There is also the fact that legally I could go and buy an old bike reasonably cheap such as a Villers engined  James tax and insure it then ride it on the road without checking the brakes suspension or other safety factors.

 

Don't forget to get some brown trousers and bicycle clips......

[Steve Blackdog 687]

I am perplexed. How can there be a delay with the break lights coming on? WHen you press the brake pedal, you activate a switch. The switch turns the stop light on. 

 

Did they tell you what was causing the problem?  

[Trumpet 216]

+1 on Wavy disks .. you must see some effect on the brake tester as the pads pass over the smaller cross section surely ? IMHO the tester was extremly picky, apart from the badly adjusted rear brake switch.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Trumpet

[elbee 754]

27 minutes ago, Steve Blackdog said:

I am perplexed. How can there be a delay with the break lights coming on? WHen you press the brake pedal, you activate a switch. The switch turns the stop light on. 

 

Did they tell you what was causing the problem?  

 

 

When I took delivery of my bike I found I had to press the pedal down hard before the light came on - as with the OP's bike, gentle braking wouldn't trigger the light.

 

I adjusted the switch (turned the screw) so the light comes on just before the brake begins to bite.

 

[Steve Blackdog 687]

Well you live and learn!

[embee 7,288]

We had the discussion on MOT exempted vehicles a few weeks ago. The new regs coming in May this year is to exempt vehicles over 40yrs old from needing an MOT (with a few conditions attached). There aren't many 40+yr old vehicles on the road which haven't been looked after to some extent. The MOT stats showed that the failure rate for them was significantly lower than newer everyday vehicles and that the cases of accidents caused by or primarily due to technical faults was minimal (not zero, but very low). It was looked into in some depth, not just a whim. I doubt very much whether it will have any measurable effect on road safety stats. You are still at liberty to get it inspected.

I still don't quite understand the logic behind making them exempt from any sort of technical inspection even if it was all on an advisory basis, but I understand the difficulties in making test standards applicable to all vehicles, and likewise the complexity of trying to write different standards for different ages. A 1903 de Dion Bouton would probably have a hard job even registering any brake force on a modern testing machine, and the headlamp beam pattern depends how the wicks are trimmed. Easier to simply exempt the oldies.

[MikeBike 5,006]

3 hours ago, Steve Blackdog said:

I am perplexed. How can there be a delay with the break lights coming on? WHen you press the brake pedal, you activate a switch. The switch turns the stop light on. 

 

Did they tell you what was causing the problem?  

Yes, they said the switch is adjustable and was too low so that it needed a really hard press of the pedal to activate. Must have worked loose?

[Bigglesaircraft 293]

In France we have what I think is a very good system relating to MOT's or CT ( Controle Techniques ) although motor bikes are exempt from CT's as they are considered to be better maintained by their owners than other vehicles, and Vintage vechicles registered prior to 1960. The test is done at 2 yearly intervals if it passes the test

a sticker is stuck to the windscreen by the tester detailing when the next test is due. It costs between €49 - €120 depending on the fuel source, petrol the cheapest and GPL to most expensive and it takes approx 45 mins, café and refreshments usually included.

All CT Centres are Government Controlled and only carry out CT's, they do not and are not allowed to carry out any repairs. 

There are two types of garage here one that carries out mechanical repairs and servicing and one that repairs bodywork neither do each others work, if you have an collision for example your car is taken directly to a réparation de carrosserie (Car Body repair shop ) of your insurers choice and if you need a service you go to garage where there is a atelier de service de voiture ( engineering workshop ). This arrangments prevents any contflict of interests and the customer is free to choose where they take their trade.

 

[Tex 36,817]

Thanks David, it’s interesting the difference between member states of the E.U. when you would have imagined all stuff like that would be ‘standardised’.

[Trev 18,730]

1 hour ago, Tex said:

Thanks David, it’s interesting the difference between member states of the E.U. when you would have imagined all stuff like that would be ‘standardised’.

 

Unfortunately that's the model that's been successfully pedaled by the 'give us our freedom' EU sceptics. Having friends and colleagues in several EU countries it's obvious just how much each country is still able to take directives and interprete them into their own laws and legislation. MOT and driving tests are a very good example of this but on a more contraversial note, so are immigration laws, just need to look at Spain (let alone Hungary) to see we don't need to exit the Eu to have more effective control on immigration, we already have it.

 

 Sorry, climbs off high horse .......... 

[Andy m 23,569]

The French separation of tester and seller is much better IMHO. The Australian and some American states are even better with fully automated tests:

 

UK : grease monkey decides horn is strident and tries to sell you one

France: grease monkey decides horn is strident and doesn't have any input in what you do about it.

Australia: computer notes horn frequency is outside limits and has no further input.

 

Guess which system has input from the motor industry through the GEA etc? Our old boys networks defeated us on this one. Its why you get three years on a new vehicle then every year. If you only got two years on a new vehicle, then every two, you would be less likely to pay your way out of buying non-strident horns and then would only buy one less often. This is what we need to dump once they can no longer hide behind so called EU standardisation. It removes an excuse for not fixing it. It will not remove the influence of interested parties unless we choose that as well. From what I see on consultation comittees  I am not confident, the civil servants want it all to go away, we do everything on the cheap with minimum efficiency, the politicians find it too difficult to understand, sellers of parts and services are not challenged on why they want certain features. 

 

Andy

[embee 7,288]

It's a case of careers and agendas.........

Edited February 20, 2018 by embee

[Rev Ken 6,343]

On 19/02/2018 at 13:29, Tex said:

 

Quite. But without the MOT test who would have been giving you those ‘advisories’ on your rusty brake pipes? Many ‘classic’ vehicles are owner maintained. And not every owner is as impartial as a professional tester.

Hey it isn't that old!

[Rev Ken 6,343]

I used to authorise MOT stations, and later took away authorisations, as well as testers. Eventually I had to consider appeals by garages against the withdrawal of authorisation. 

EVERY garage thinks they do the MOT better than their neighbouring garage, especially those who are checked for their standards. Anybody who thinks they have been unfairly tested can appeal to DVSA and a Vehicle Examiner will do a retest. While there are some items where there can be small variations as to a tester's decision compared with the VE, if it is clear that the test was carried out incorrectly with a view to getting extra work, the tester can lose his/her authorisation, and if done in collusion with the boss, then the garage can lose their authorisation to continue testing. I took action on  one of the main franchises in Southern Scotland which made my job a lot easier when wandering into a sloppy garage!

 

If you want an automated system, try Germany, then find out that you can't add 'extras' to your vehicle unless 'certified' reducing options and making them more expensive. Our system tries to give 'value for money' with a sensible test, but accepting it can't be totally objective. It gets more 'sophisticated' with advancing technology, perhaps one day there will be a common interface that could help to shorten the time for a test and reduce 'subjectivity'. 

 

I was hired by the UN to write an MOT scheme for South Cyprus. They had government test stations for HGVs and PSVs, but wanted to introduce car  and bike MOTs and wanted the private sector to do them. I did a similar job for Malta, who weren't as advanced, but with changes in governments in both counties, they didn't follow all my recommendations and I  would like to know what happens today! 

 

(The UN also took me into North Cyprus and after meeting the Chief of Police I declined the offer of introducing a more structured vehicle inspection regime. I'll leave you to think why......)