Upside down front forks

[iaink 346]

I noticed that the new 2022 CB500X has upside down forks.

Can anyone tell me what the advantage is (if any) of upside down front forks ?

This type of fork seems to be more generally fitted to high end bikes.

One downside I can see is the working part of the fork will be more exposed to all the muck and road debris coming up from the front wheel.

Thanks.

[Tonyj 6,907]

Thought it was more about flex but couldn’t swear to it

[outrunner 4,457]

USD forks are less likely to flex and it also reduces unsprung weight and they do look better.

 

Andy.

[Hickky 3,131]

I just saw 44 teeth's review of the new Kawasaki Z 650 RS and that has normal forks, but he feels 'upside down' is nowadays probably incorrect as the traditional way up is becoming rare nowadays, mainly fitted to 'retro' bikes! If someone can tell just how more flexible the traditional way up is compared to upside down, I can spot someone who is riding waaaaay to fast for out congested roads, and will not live to be an old man like me.

[SteveThackery 3,090]

Upside down forks are supposed to be stiffer, because the fat part is clamped in the yokes, rather than the thin part.  Also, it gives the potential for a lower unsprung weight, what with it being the thin parts that move up and down with the wheel.

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by SteveThackery

[davebike 943]

Yes there are mostly stiffer

Downside  fork seals last less and are harder to DIY and take longer cost more for us pro's yto do

A proper compresion tool makes it easer and quicker but costs

 

I wonder if teh rise of the upside down has more to do with keeping the dealer workshops busy !

[Andy m 23,635]

I'd challenge any MCN journalist to tell the difference on two otherwise identical bikes with bodywork to hide the mechanicals. More race bling designed to make you think you need a new one. 

 

I know fork flex when I feel it, I've had sidecar outfits with pretty much every solution to these issues so can compare before and after. No solo bike used on the road and in good condition has any flex for practical purposes, the rider chickens out first. 

 

Andy

[Tex 36,817]

15 minutes ago, Andy m said:

I'd challenge any MCN journalist to tell the difference on two otherwise identical bikes with bodywork to hide the mechanicals. More race bling designed to make you think you need a new one. 
 

 

You’d loose. 
 

15 minutes ago, Andy m said:

 

I know fork flex when I feel it, I've had sidecar outfits with pretty much every solution to these issues so can compare before and after. No solo bike used on the road and in good condition has any flex for practical purposes, the rider chickens out first. 

 

Andy

 

It’s not all about flex it’s about general ‘feel’. Didn’t you once say that the only difference between Telelever and traditional forks was that the paint flaked off quicker? 🤣 

[Tel 4,712]

13 hours ago, iaink said:

I noticed that the new 2022 CB500X has upside down forks.

Can anyone tell me what the advantage is (if any) of upside down front forks ?

This type of fork seems to be more generally fitted to high end bikes.

One downside I can see is the working part of the fork will be more exposed to all the muck and road debris coming up from the front wheel.

Thanks.

Unsprung weight. Whether it makes any difference to normal use riders is questionable though...

[Andy m 23,635]

1 hour ago, Tex said:

 Didn’t you once say that the only difference between Telelever and traditional forks was that the paint flaked off quicker? 🤣 

Yep, over weight, over priced, over complicated and with thin paint to try and fix the former. 

 

Where are the measurements taken on a road bike to show there is any difference? If its more than psychological you should be able to measure it. 

 

Andy

[Tex 36,817]

52 minutes ago, Andy m said:

Yep, over weight, over priced, over complicated and with thin paint to try and fix the former. 

 

Where are the measurements taken on a road bike to show there is any difference? If its more than psychological you should be able to measure it. 

 

Andy

Frankly dude, if you can ride a Telelever bike and not feel the difference between that and teles we’re wasting our time discussing this..

 

“If I had to explain you wouldn’t understand”  😉

[Rev Ken 6,345]

Now lets go back a few more years. 'Upside down' forks were 'the right way up' forks. For those who think the latest 'fad' as 'upside down', they are just reverting to what was accepted as 'the right way up' forks for many years as girder forks were replaced with telescopic forks. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Rev Ken

[listener 11,260]

1 hour ago, Rev Ken said:

Now lets go back a few more years. 'Upside down' forks were 'the right way up' forks. For those who think the latest 'fad' as 'upside down', they are just reverting to what was accepted as 'the right way up' forks for many years as girder forks were replaced with telescopic forks. 

 

Suspension? What's that?   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildebrand_%26_Wolfmüller

[MatBin 5,102]

If they fitted upside down forks to an NC my bet is one would feel the difference, even an old slow coach like me, however I think that would be because they were better forks with better internals rather than them being upside down.

[Rocker66 34,489]

I will be interested to find out when I eventually get my new bike just how much (if any) difference the upside down forks make.

[Tex 36,817]

8 hours ago, Rocker66 said:

I will be interested to find out when I eventually get my new bike just how much (if any) difference the upside down forks make.

Oh, the difference is there. It’s just whether you are the type to notice it. Not everyone does. 

[Tel 4,712]

On 16/11/2021 at 11:29, Tex said:

Frankly dude, if you can ride a Telelever bike and not feel the difference between that and teles we’re wasting our time discussing this..

 

“If I had to explain you wouldn’t understand”  😉

I love telelever BMWs, for some reason they suit the way I ride. I especially appreciated them in the wet. Scientifically I don't know why but I just like the way they 'feel'.

[Steve Case 957]

I found the telelever worked best when you got it wrong, like screaming into a wet roundybout north of 70 to find a small french car pop up in front of you. Absolutely no dive at the front.

 

Or realising that the rear has been set so soft your arse drags on the road, adjusting the preload and taking the bike on a test run on the worst condition road possible and gunning it up to naughty and it riding over the potholes like they didn't exist.

 

On the plus side it didn't let road imperfections upto the rider and on the down side it didn't let road imperfections upto the rider.

[Tex 36,817]

2 hours ago, Tel said:

I love telelever BMWs, for some reason they suit the way I ride. I especially appreciated them in the wet. Scientifically I don't know why but I just like the way they 'feel'.

Me too! The first one I rode belonged to a friend and after about ten minutes I thought “I MUST have one of these”. Absolutely loved it. Got one a couple of months later and kept it for 10 years. 

[Tex 36,817]

1 hour ago, Steve Case said:

I found the telelever worked best when you got it wrong, like screaming into a wet roundybout north of 70 to find a small french car pop up in front of you. Absolutely no dive at the front.

 

Or realising that the rear has been set so soft your arse drags on the road, adjusting the preload and taking the bike on a test run on the worst condition road possible and gunning it up to naughty and it riding over the potholes like they didn't exist.

 

On the plus side it didn't let road imperfections upto the rider and on the down side it didn't let road imperfections upto the rider.

Correct! Especially the last part! I changed my R850R for a Tiger 800 with USD forks and, initially, felt they were a rough as a badger’s bum. After a couple of months I worked out it was the sheer amount of feedback they were providing compared to the Telelever. Once I twigged that I came to love them (not as much as I loved the Beemer forks though). I swear if I ran over a coin I could tell if it was heads or tails. And you don’t get that with ordinary teles.

 I changed the Tiger for an Integra. I’d rather not think about that.   

[Steve Case 957]

May have to get another and this time paint the beak fluoro orange....

 

Safety feature obviously!

[Tex 36,817]

52 minutes ago, Steve Case said:

May have to get another and this time paint the beak fluoro orange....

 

Safety feature obviously!

A group of us used to go to Scotland a couple of times a year and would frequently swap bikes for half a day. I loved the Boxer Cup. It had a sports exhaust and a chip and it was just sublime through the twisties. Not as comfy as my 850 (everyone loved riding that) but for a couple of hours it was delicious. The 1150RS was nice too, that’s what I would choose to ride up to Scotland although not necessarily when I was there. I miss those days and am glad I did it all.  

[Tel 4,712]

I aspired to a Boxer Cup but have owned two R1100S, one yellow and one yellow/black, and loved them both. The first one suffered the dreaded gearbox oil-seal fault and I had massive clutch slip at 80mph on the A12. Fortunately Cannon BMW did the job under warranty or it would have cost a packet, it also gave me the chance to visit Veronica [the guv'nors wife] who I got on well with...

I've also owned a R1100RS and two R1150R and various other BMWs. I'm not blind to the BMW faults but overall they're one of my favourite marques!

[Steve Case 957]

They don't have faults they have quirks, like the worlds worst gearbox!

 

However I would have another GS. because of the lovely seating position, the huge wide bars and the forward footpegs (unlike the 'adventure' rearsets on some bike I may currently own).

 

I really do need to lower the pegs on the NC!!!

[fred_jb 10,269]

8 minutes ago, Steve Case said:

They don't have faults they have quirks, like the worlds worst gearbox!

 

However I would have another GS. because of the lovely seating position, the huge wide bars and the forward footpegs (unlike the 'adventure' rearsets on some bike I may currently own).

 

I really do need to lower the pegs on the NC!!!

 

The later post-2017 1200 and 1250 models have a much improved gearbox and a shock damper in the shaft drive. I found mine entirely acceptable, and the 1250 even avoided the clunk into 1st, but only when cold - for some reason it came back once warmed up!