annual service?

[ASB 21]

My dealer has emailed to say that my 2021 NC750 X DCT, is now due an annual service.  I thought from the handbook that the only item needing attending after one year was an oil change (the bike did have the initial 600-mile service and has just done less than 3000 miles since).  I wouldn't think it necessary to visit a dealer for a simple oil change especially as the handbook says that there is no need to change either filter after one year. Any thoughts?

[Andy m 23,592]

There is no point changing oil without also doing the filter.

 

They want you to buy a stamp in the book which they claim will result in no questions should you claim on the warranty. Up to you if you believe them.

 

Andy 

[poldark 1,525]

Several others I believe have had same experience as me regards warranty claim.

 

At no point did anyone ask to see my service stampa, although my claim related to exhaust & centre stand.  Perhaps if it was engine failure, but we all know these engines are low stressed and capable of mega mileage.

 

But many are happy to pay for peace of mind and support the Honda dealer network.

Edited November 23, 2022 by poldark

[alhendo1 3,053]

From memory, the 500x apparently didn't need an oil filter at the 8k/1st year service...just the oil changed....I had them change it anyway...kept my ocd symptoms at bay....warranty/self service...the choice is yours...

[Rocker66 34,466]

I always think that putting new oil through a dirty filter is a bit like washing up in dirty water.

[MatBin 5,099]

Would oil be dirty after 3000 miles in a year, assuming they aren't all 3 mile runs of course?

Although to be fair the NC filters are so accessible I would change them.

I believe the annual service also includes other stuff on top of an oil change, or should do 🤔

Edited December 1, 2022 by MatBin

[DCTPaul 629]

My '19 had the 600 miler at the dealers...

Rest is gonna be by me at the MILEAGE intervals...

I purchased the Honda Engine Oil 'Filter Set' as this includes a filter AND removal tool, I also purchased a Honds DCT Filter. It will get Castrol 10w30 Fully Synthetic - Halford's trade card. I'm also a fan of the 5w40 fully synth, all my scooters get it, (might try it in the NC in time) along with HiFlo filters and EBC pads.

Edited December 1, 2022 by DCTPaul

[Broady 33]

1 hour ago, DCTPaul said:

My '19 had the 600 miler at the dealers...

Rest is gonna be by me at the MILEAGE intervals...

I purchased the Honda Engine Oil 'Filter Set' as this includes a filter AND removal tool, I also purchased a Honds DCT Filter. It will get Castrol 10w30 Fully Synthetic - Halford's trade card. I'm also a fan of the 5w40 fully synth, all my scooters get it, (might try it in the NC in time) along with HiFlo filters and EBC pads.

Semi synthetic would be fine but it's your choice and money.

[Skidt 1,315]

1 hour ago, DCTPaul said:

I purchased the Honda Engine Oil 'Filter Set' as this includes a filter AND removal tool

I’d suggest that you have a back up plan / tool available when you go to try to remove the oil filter with the INCLUDED removal tool.  
My genuine Honda oil filter also came with a removal tool. It snapped as soon as I tried to undo the filter.
And yes, I did turn it “Lefty Loosey”! 

[DCTPaul 629]

Only a pound or so in it for Castrol in Halfords...

Really? Don't sound good or was specially tight... I've also got an old school chain wrench

Edited December 1, 2022 by DCTPaul

[Defender 3,837]

17 hours ago, DCTPaul said:

I've also got an old school chain wrench

I have one of those self tightening/gripping rubber BOA thingies, like an oversized jar lid remover, but I've not tried it on the NC'X oil filter yet?

In the past, I've also just pushed a pointed thin punch or screwdriver through it, but 'off centre/to one side' as some have a tube/pipe down the core. I used that method at work once when we had a stuck filter we couldn't shift, it was messy but did the job! 

[elbee 754]

On 01/12/2022 at 21:45, DCTPaul said:

I've also got an old school chain wrench

 

^ this

[jeremyr62 2,574]

On 01/12/2022 at 21:43, Skidt said:

My genuine Honda oil filter also came with a removal tool. It snapped as soon as I tried to undo the filter.

I got one of these too. The removal/tightening bolt connected to the pressed steel fluted tool was attached by two of the smallest weld beads I have ever seen. Weight saving to the extreme..

[Steve Case 955]

I think the reason most of them are such an arse to remove is they were overtightened in the first place. And i'm guilty of that.

Saying that i've bought the filter with the socket end on it and see if that makes it easier. Mind you i could use the torque wrench with this one.

[Andy m 23,592]

28 minutes ago, Steve Case said:

I think the reason most of them are such an arse to remove is they were overtightened in the first place. And i'm guilty of that.

Saying that i've bought the filter with the socket end on it and see if that makes it easier. Mind you i could use the torque wrench with this one.

You are only trying to blow the bloody doors off  compress a square section seal a bit like the washer in a domestic tap. No ten foot bars required.

 

I suspect the line Gorillas gun them on dry. 

 

A torque wrench is over kill, (and pointless if the certificate is out of date). The rubber will vary with temperature and how well you beaded it with oil to remove stiction. Better to just go hand tight then give it another flat if it dribbles. The rubber acts like a nylock so it won't undo.

 

I have to say I like the K&N filters with a nut welded on to start with. The Guzzi of course uses a bog roll inner, so no current worries on any of this.

 

Andy

Edited December 3, 2022 by Andy m

[fj_stuart 4,759]

My SV650 is the only one of my fleet with a spin-on filter. The book says tighten by hand then two more turns with the tool. This seemed a lot but makes perfect sense. The thread is 1mm pitch and the O ring sits 2mm proud of the end of the filter. Two turns brings the filter body flush with the engine casing so there's no point in trying to go any further.

[Johnnie Mototrans 2,767]

2 hours ago, Andy m said:

You are only trying to blow the bloody doors off  compress a square section seal a bit like the washer in a domestic tap. No ten foot bars required.

 

I suspect the line Gorillas gun them on dry. 

 

A torque wrench is over kill, (and pointless if the certificate is out of date). The rubber will vary with temperature and how well you beaded it with oil to remove stiction. Better to just go hand tight then give it another flat if it dribbles. The rubber acts like a nylock so it won't undo.

 

I have to say I like the K&N filters with a nut welded on to start with. The Guzzi of course uses a bog roll inner, so no current worries on any of this.

 

Andy

 

So there I was thrashing a Ducati 600ss through Northern Spain keeping up with my 1000cc plus playmates when there was much tooting from a Yamaha 1400 following in my wake.

Yup.the filter had unwound and was spraying the back tyre with oil.

Unbelievably I coasted to a halt beside a small motorcycle shop.

The filter was retightened and more than a litre of synthetic something or other was added to bring it back up to the correct level.

The tyre was wiped down and we continued for another 1500miles without incident.

Lucky or what?

 

 

 

[Slowboy 20,533]

13 minutes ago, Johnnie Mototrans said:

 

So there I was thrashing a Ducati 600ss through Northern Spain keeping up with my 1000cc plus playmates when there was much tooting from a Yamaha 1400 following in my wake.

Yup.the filter had unwound and was spraying the back tyre with oil.

Unbelievably I coasted to a halt beside a small motorcycle shop.

The filter was retightened and more than a litre of synthetic something or other was added to bring it back up to the correct level.

The tyre was wiped down and we continued for another 1500miles without incident.

Lucky or what?

Yep, if you can choose to be anything, be lucky😁

[Steve Case 955]

3 hours ago, Andy m said:

You are only trying to blow the bloody doors off  compress a square section seal a bit like the washer in a domestic tap. No ten foot bars required.

 

I suspect the line Gorillas gun them on dry. 

 

A torque wrench is over kill, (and pointless if the certificate is out of date). The rubber will vary with temperature and how well you beaded it with oil to remove stiction. Better to just go hand tight then give it another flat if it dribbles. The rubber acts like a nylock so it won't undo.

 

I have to say I like the K&N filters with a nut welded on to start with. The Guzzi of course uses a bog roll inner, so no current worries on any of this.

 

Andy

No i put them on by hand, no tools. I have a grip like the big monkey with the pointy stick up its arse.

 

I lurve torq rench makes me look like i kno wot i am doin...

[Steve Case 955]

49 minutes ago, Johnnie Mototrans said:

 

So there I was thrashing a Ducati 600ss through Northern Spain keeping up with my 1000cc plus playmates when there was much tooting from a Yamaha 1400 following in my wake.

Yup.the filter had unwound and was spraying the back tyre with oil.

Unbelievably I coasted to a halt beside a small motorcycle shop.

The filter was retightened and more than a litre of synthetic something or other was added to bring it back up to the correct level.

The tyre was wiped down and we continued for another 1500miles without incident.

Lucky or what?

 

 

 

Holy batshit, theres no gif to express you jammy barsteward, you got lucky there.

[Steve Case 955]

Anyroad going back to the original point, the service books always state x miles or yearly whatever is less.

For me this means just over a service a year as i'm doing 10k, but would i be right in assuming that yearly is either to catch people doing 1k miles yearly with a service every 8 years or the AndyM view to keep dealers with annual revenue?

Would sticking to the mileage and not yearly actually affect the bike in any way?

[Steve Case 955]

And seperately i'm now on a simple oil change, check and winterise the bike before the winter and a proper service in spring to get the bike ready for the big miles.

Usually the chain will be replaced as winter salt usually kills it.

[Andy m 23,592]

1 hour ago, Steve Case said:

Anyroad going back to the original point, the service books always state x miles or yearly whatever is less.

For me this means just over a service a year as i'm doing 10k, but would i be right in assuming that yearly is either to catch people doing 1k miles yearly with a service every 8 years or the AndyM view to keep dealers with annual revenue?

Would sticking to the mileage and not yearly actually affect the bike in any way?

As the Guzzi is the most likely keeper I've had for a while I'm going to get the next lot of oil analysed.

 

Most large fleets that have analysed oil find the manufacturers are very much in the better-safe-than-a-bit-richer camp. However, these are companies using the vehicles 6 or 7 days a week, so condensation or pads stuck to discs or batteries dropping below the recovery voltage isn't what they are facing. Getting even ten vehicles on longer intervals is going to be a saving.

 

Personally I bet you can double both time and mileage just because the UK doesn't have an extreme climate. However, I also won't take any huge risk for the sake of an afternoon and a bit if oil. I'll change early just to avoid the hassle of doing it at a less convenient time.

 

To me many motorcyclists just need to chill out over the whole thing. Daddy's little favourite toy isn't going to be cross with him for changing the oil a month or three too late. The man-child threads where they have to buy Fully Sympathetic Barnsley Virgin Oil in a Honda logo'd bottle, then wonder why it's 300 a gallon, then complain they are on 7998 when It's five to the dealer just show us why the manufacturers feel they can take the ****. 

 

Our climate is not extreme, so rules set for Arizona or commuting in Bangkok have to be conservative for our needs.

 

Andy 

[MatBin 5,099]

I am happy to push an oil change more than 3 months, more like 12 if my mileage is really low, so long as they weren't all short hops. My thoughts are, how much lower life will there be for a missed change, I will probably sell the vehicle well before it expires anyway. If you buy a second hand vehicle how confident can you be it's had its oil changed at the right intervals anyway. My greatest fear isn't with the oil, I recall using oils in the 70's which have been significantly improved upon by either synthetic or semi synthetic, but more so with the filter degrading over time rather than mileage and causing an oilway blockage. This happened to my CX , albeit 40 years ago, so I guess filters are better now too, and I think it was a non genuine one anyway so who knows what the quality control was.

Didn't Fortnine do some oil tests?

Be good to see your results though Andy.

Edited December 4, 2022 by MatBin

[Slowboy 20,533]

4 hours ago, Andy m said:

…..To me many motorcyclists just need to chill out over the whole thing. Daddy's little favourite toy isn't going to be cross with him for changing the oil a month or three too late. The man-child threads where they have to buy Fully Sympathetic Barnsley Virgin Oil in a Honda logo'd bottle, then wonder why it's 300 a gallon, then complain they are on 7998 when It's five to the dealer just show us why the manufacturers feel they can take the ****. 

Andy 

I’d like to quote this to a friend of mine who won’t ride his bike if it’ll push it over the service mileage by any distance at all in case it affects his warranty.
The figures the manufacturer set have little to do with mechanical requirements, and everything to do with broadly expected use and keeping their dealers a sustainable business.

The only certain assessment is a regular assessment of the oil by a proper lab. I’d be surprised if, in the uk, it doesn’t double the suggested scheduled change, especially with modern oils and decent paper filters.