Parking Brake

[embattle 361]

So on my X-ADV 750 I noticed my parking brake wasn't holding so I adjusted the parking brake caliper yesterday.

 

Today I had a tyre change and they said the parking brake is down to the metal, really odd but guess that explains it stopped working.

 

So I've ordered a set of ebc pads, the official honda service manual talks about new pad pins and caliper bolts....does anyone actually change these unless damaged?

[Skidt 2,428]

8 minutes ago, embattle said:

does anyone actually change these unless damaged?

Not me, unless as you say they are damaged or, because of corrosion, they’ve been a real bugger to get out.
Even then, I’ve found with a decent wire brush clean up and lube, they’re reusable. 

 

Hope all goes well. 

[MatBin 5,734]

Changed my parking brake pads, but not the pins etc, used ceramic grease on re-assembly.

[embattle 361]

At the moment the Pins are not coming out, left them with some WD40 on them overnight.

[PoppetM 19,314]

Ok stupid question incoming…. Which ones are the “parking brake” brake pads? 
I also have a parking brake, but to be honest…have never looked for the other end on the wheels. 

[embattle 361]

18 minutes ago, PoppetM said:

Ok stupid question incoming…. Which ones are the “parking brake” brake pads? 
I also have a parking brake, but to be honest…have never looked for the other end on the wheels. 

 

Generally it shouldn't wear that fast, but I have a suspicion the friction material might of actually fallen off on the inside pad. It is the lower one under the swing arm with a cable:

 

[MPG100 633]

Parked my nc750x dct on side stand today with bike facing up hill and it started to slide so put handbrake on, and it still very slowly tried to slide down the hill ~ and that was before I'd loaded up the weekly shop  Looking at the handbrake and also the rear mechanism (as per 'embattle's photo) I can't see any 'in-line' cable adjuster. Maybe i need to slacken off the nut on the arm that carries the cable end nipple, move the arm ACLW, then retighten???? 

 

I assume there's no Haynes Manual for this bike. There may be access to workshop manual on here as I am paid up member, but I can't see ref to a manual and this site has not granted me supporter status since payment back in January...

 

Any suggestions appreciated!

[Skidt 2,428]

Below is my 2017 NC750X DCT.

 

The arrow points to a locking nut and an adjuster. Loosen the locking nut, adjust the end of the shaft, (righty tightly iirc) or pull the arm that holds the end of the cable to the left, to take up some slack in the cable, until you have the desired level of retardation i.e you can’t turn the rear wheel with the handbrake on, but the wheel will rotate when you release the handbrake, without binding. Then tighten up the Locking nut again. 
 

 

 

Item 1 in this picture below (taken from the manual) is the parking brake adjuster bolt lock nut. It may make it a bit clearer? Item 2 is the arm which I refer to above. 

 

 

 

Edited May 7 by Skidt

[MatBin 5,734]

2 hours ago, embattle said:

 

Generally it shouldn't wear that fast, but I have a suspicion the friction material might of actually fallen off on the inside pad. It is the lower one under the swing arm with a cable:

 

That's a good looking swing arm. There also appears to be an eccentric adjuster by the end of the Bowden cable(to the left of the chain).

[embattle 361]

Two possible adjustments can be made to the parking brake, there is the cable adjuster that deals with cable stretch, in my case it was in standard (43 - 55 mm) which is fortunate since adjusting it on an X-ADV is a ball ache as it requires many panels to be removed to reach it, and then there is the caliper side that'll deal pad wear.

[dave 1,101]

The pads should last forever, I brought some new ones but when they arrived they were the same thickness as the original ones. You adjust it by undoing the lock nut and screwing in the grub screw in the calliper. Simple.

[embattle 361]

2 hours ago, dave said:

The pads should last forever, I brought some new ones but when they arrived they were the same thickness as the original ones. You adjust it by undoing the lock nut and screwing in the grub screw in the calliper. Simple.

 

They should but for some reason mine didn't, the inside one is gone, and that is what made me think the material fell off since one day it worked and the next it didn't work at all.

 

I can't get the pins out, so I've just adjusted the caliper bolt so the other pad is further away from the disc. I'll get it sorted with my service when it comes up at the start of next year.

[Grumpyoldgit 863]

I changed mine when I bought the bike as the friction pad had become detached from the metal backer likely down to corrosion I suppose. 

 

They may also wear out due to the blunt spoon behind the handlebars somehow not noticing/ realising that the hand brake is on when riding.

There was a video post on an FB NC owners group a few days ago where someone's rear brakes burst into flames. They had apparently just had the brakes replaced by a garage so one would assume that the were incorrectly or just poorly done, but how does the rider not notice that the bike they’ve been riding for years is suddenly a lot slower than it was the day before and harder to push around the garage?  

[MPG100 633]

Great info! Byway of a footnote: both sprog2 and myself run Skoda Fabias which have rear drum brakes. If left parked for a week or so, when you release the handbrake and attempt to drive off they both stay put. Rocking in 1st & reverse norm sorts the prob. I think the handbrakes are working ok, its as if the brake pads cold weld to the drums...

[MatBin 5,734]

13 hours ago, MPG100 said:

Great info! Byway of a footnote: both sprog2 and myself run Skoda Fabias which have rear drum brakes. If left parked for a week or so, when you release the handbrake and attempt to drive off they both stay put. Rocking in 1st & reverse norm sorts the prob. I think the handbrakes are working ok, its as if the brake pads cold weld to the drums...

That used to happen years ago with shoes that had a high asbestos content. I suspect these days the higher metal content rusts and then sticks to the drums, unlike pads they can't force the pistons back into the caliper. My wife's car which we seldom use sometimes has the pads stuck against the discs if it has rained.

Edited Friday at 09:41 by MatBin

[Jamesc 4,832]

My pick up has drums on the back. Wife asked me why I rarely if ever use the handbrake when parked, bad memories of shoes seized in place

 

It's got leaf springs also. Horse & cart technology!

[Tegraman 3,508]

There was a tyre place on the outskirts of Barnsley years ago that had a BMC mini tyre pinned to the workshop wall, as a talking point. Apparently the driver of the mini had driven it from home and into the tyre place to have a puncture repaired in one of the rear wheels. The tyre fitter discovered the rear wheel completely locked by the handbrake, and the tyre worn entirely away in one place. The tyre fitter had asked, diplomatically, whether the driver had noticed anything unusual during the drive from home. “eye, it were a bit slow, like. Wot y’asking for?"

[MPG100 633]

Ok, here's my old anecdote: Driving the OH to rail station in thick snow early one morning in our new-to-us Citroen BX. En-route there is a wide open right hand road junction covered in nr virgin snow. So I accelerate, give big flicks of the steering wheel and pull on handbrake - thinking this will surprise and impress her. Not sure exactly what happened next but it sure impressed and surprised me. Thinking afterwards as to why the world flashed past in such an unexpected manner I wondered if on the BX the handbrake acts on the front wheels... 

[EdG 359]

Please excuse the "off piste😉" comment.  I had a new BX Diesel years ago.  Possibly the most comfortable suspension I've had on a car.

[Andy m 26,943]

1 hour ago, EdG said:

Please excuse the "off piste😉" comment.  I had a new BX Diesel years ago.  Possibly the most comfortable suspension I've had on a car.

Yep, a fine piece of technology killed by accountants who wanted cheap and salesman who could only talk finance deals ☹

 

That hand brake set up unfortunately has very little going for it. Bad adjustment options, nothing in the function to wipe the pads. It's going to die by corrosion and fail the MOT by lack of bedding in/profile matching. If you know the MOT is due you could try a few moving applications to clear the face of the pad. You want to apply it once a week, but only to cycle the silly split drum cam thing inside it. Strip and clean annually.

 

Does the bike have a centre stand? If so my temptation is to remove the whole thing. MOT only requires it not to roll away when pushed on a flat surface, no practical consideration of parking on a slope.

 

Honda of course should have programmed a parking mode into the DCT, cheaper, easier to fit, works better. The only reason I think they didn't was because the original NC had linked brakes. Declaring the parking brake as secondary is a cheap nasty way of getting the approval. Just hope the MOT man never works this out. A roller test on that tiny cable operated calliper is only going to pass when set up on said roller and in peak condition.

 

Andy

[Tegraman 3,508]

The handbrake on the Disco is via a drum on the output propshaft stub of the transfer box. It therefore is only truly working on one wheel (because of front, rear and centre diffs). Worse, it is before the backlash in the diffs/Hardy Spicers/front swivel joints. This makes fine adjustment in vehicle position difficult when offroad on uneven ground, like when hooking up a trailer, because there is around 75mm of fore and aft car movement possible even once the handbrake is fully on. With a nod to @Andy m' comment above, my standard MOT prep routine includes a short journey with the handbrake on slightly, with frequent cooling easements of course, not a fan of the smell of red-hot Ferrodo.

[Andy m 26,943]

You can actually work backwards from what the designer was thinking.

 

A parking brake only has to hold on a hill of a certain gradient depending on the vehicle type. The control has to be accessible depending again on vehicle type and it has to work unpowered. You need a visual representation that it's applied. One wheel was obviously enough.

 

The secondary brake has to meet a rolling performance (MFDD), graduated and be able to be released. 

 

@Tegraman 's Landrover uses the drum as a parking brake. They went to the effort of testing the foot brake with either circuit failed for the secondary. You have a fair argument if the MOT money tests anything by pulling the lever between the seats while the (polished and wet) roller is turning. Fortunately the criteria is so low I've know trucks pass without any linings fitted 🙄🤐.

 

Motorcycles IIRC don't have any parking requirement, they can't roll way, they fall over. FMVS and I think the Italian authorities however have taken a sensible approach and required something against goodness knows what local legislation. Honda's lawyers sensibly don't argue. If one rolled off a side stand and squashed an American it wouldn't end well for them. For the UK a secure stand would be enough.

 

Andy

Edited Saturday at 08:32 by Andy m

[embattle 361]

What a complete ball ache, the pins are so tight the heads rounded. I used a drill to help weaken the heads and banged in a bigger Allen key and twisted the heads off with the hope the pins would then come out. Unfortunately the pins still wouldn't budge which was highly annoying, I decided that I would risk destroying the caliper just to find out more. After more work I came to the conclusion that the pin ends had somehow become completely stuck and no amount penetration fluid seemed to help. I sawed the pins, which meant cutting the caliper, and then proceeded to remove all the parts I could to use as spares in the future.

 

A new caliper is about £600, so before doing too much work on my problematic caliper I found a good looking used one on that auction site from Italy for £72.

[MPG100 633]

10 hours ago, embattle said:

...I came to the conclusion that the pin ends had somehow become completely stuck...

I recall someone on here recommended removing, greasing (copperslip?)  & replacing the 3 bolts securing the exhaust manifold to stop them 'welding themselves to the barrel / block. Given I wasn't sure what to do about the gasket I merely slackened and retightened the bolts. Following the brake comment above I'm starting to wonder if there is a list of items on the nc that need similar 'tweaking' to stop them becoming stuck??????

 

 

[Andy m 26,943]

Every bike made this century has a similar list of things that need greasing the minute you get them from the dealer. Factories and workshops hate grease. You have to buy it. You have to control how much is used. The Elven Safety man is going to get out his BIG Clipboard that holds a full ream and make you list how no one is going to slip, or eat it, or get rashes in unfortunate places or.....

 

A non-comprehesive list;

 

Axles

Stand pivots

Brake pivots and pins

Seat hinges

Levers and controls

The swing arm and/or headstock if you are heading to Africa or it's a known problem

Any cover that has to come off to change oil or other service work

.......

 

It would be nice if Honda would deliver the bike in it's crate and let you phone in the registration when you've built it. It would be nice to find a dealer that was stuck in the 1970's and/or had a sense of pride. It isn't the current business model ☹

 

While tackling these at 6 to 600 miles makes the job less unpleasant it still doesn't get past the windy gun problem. The factory monkey isn't in the business of taking them out, but does get a €0//0@1#g if they come loose. 

 

Second hand bikes are no better, previous owner may be in the torque wrench clicks then half a turn for luck frame of mind ☹

 

All you can do is tackle these things on a wet bank holiday not the day before you are due on the ferry.

 

Andy