Factory Oil In New NC?

[JAHBLESS 11]

Does anybody know what oil new NC's leave the factory with?

[Guest xjraus]

Normally its a mineral oil to allow run in off engine and thats why its changed at 1000klms or 600m to a semi synthectic

[JAHBLESS 11]

Normally its a mineral oil to allow run in off engine and thats why its changed at 1000klms or 600m to a semi synthectic

 

I'm assuming the same but wanted it verified since the guy who sold me the bike didn't know. To know the grade and if it's mineral or semi would be helpful, either way I won't be waiting until 600 miles to change it, I'll do it tomorrow if I'm sure about what I'm taking out and what I should be putting back in, I'm aware I need mineral oil but that's about it. 

[Guest bonekicker]

Iv'e just bought some from Honda Agents and it's MOTUL 5100 10W30  4T  this is what their workshop uses ( if of course they do change the oil of course) it should say in your manual?  Just noticed yours is a DCT can someone confirm this is the same oil as the NC750X uses.

 

Have a look on tinterweb !!!

[JAHBLESS 11]

Iv'e just bought some from Honda Agents and it's MOTUL 5100 10W30  4T  this is what their workshop uses ( if of course they do change the oil of course) it should say in your manual?  Just noticed yours is a DCT can someone confirm this is the same oil as the NC750X uses.

 

Have a look on tinterweb !!!

 

Motul 5100 is a high end semi synthetic which is probably what I'll use after the 1,000 mile mark, I've done 110 miles so far and know I still need a break in oil for some time yet, though still not sure about which grade, tried to look online but NC specific information doesn't seem to be out there.

Edited June 29, 2014 by JAHBLESS

[Tex 36,817]

Why on earth would you want to change the oil so soon? Many modern cars go 12 - 18,000 miles before their first change. If Honda say change it at 600 miles you can be sure that do do it any earlier you're merely pouring your money down the drain. Of course, if it makes you feel better, it's your prerogative.

[usabikes 440]

On another thread I pasted a reply I got from the New Zealand Honda service manager in which he recommends using a mineral oil until 20,000 kms with the NC engine.  May I suggest reading my recent comment here:~ http://www.nc700.co.uk/index.php?/topic/5067-can-i-use-10w-40-instead-of-10w-30/page-2 

 

No harm changing oil early and often with a new engine, a good precaution and oil is cheap.

 

Car makers are moving to longer oil change intervals but this seems due to competition for consumers who don't want to lose their cars while they're getting serviced - according to the local Toyota dealer's service manager. My work Toyota diesel has a 15K oil change - a diesel! He & I both agreed we wouldn't think of doing this with our own engines. Viscosity degradation on a mineral 10-30 means that I am personally uncomfortable leaving it in more than 1,200 (2,000kms) or so and that I would only use it as basically running-in oil. Yes it gives marginally better MPG but it doesn't give the protection at higher engines temperatures & stresses that a 20-50 would (talking mineral oils here) and I shudder at the grade of oil after 8,000 miles - you'd probably be running around with a straight 10W  .

 

 

Once fully run in (which is basically what the service manager's email is saying) I intend using the most obscenely expensive synthetic with the widest viscosity spread I can find and changing it once a year (as I do few miles these days). I y'all think that's excessive & expensive then have a look at the price of fixing a stuffed big-end  - THAT'S expensive!

 

All the best

[JAHBLESS 11]

Why on earth would you want to change the oil so soon? Many modern cars go 12 - 18,000 miles before their first change. If Honda say change it at 600 miles you can be sure that do do it any earlier you're merely pouring your money down the drain. Of course, if it makes you feel better, it's your prerogative.

 

For your information and the misinformation you've contributed to this thread any oil change before the first 100 miles is one of the most important oil changes you can do, new engines and their internals shear, these sheared and unsettled metal particles mix with your oil, some of these particles even make it through your oil filter, I'm no expert but I know this to be true.

[scara 354]

For your information and the misinformation you've contributed to this thread any oil change before the first 100 miles is one of the most important oil changes you can do, new engines and their internals shear, these sheared and unsettled metal particles mix with your oil, some of these particles even make it through your oil filter, I'm no expert but I know this to be true.

 

I'm not sure what Misinformation Tex has really given, he is right modern cars go 12 months/12000 miles before a first service.

You too though are right about the shearings on a new engine during the break in period.

Some people do change the oil and filter during the first 100 miles, but I bet you their engines wont last any longer than someone that waits until the first running in service.

As Tex says though it is your money and your choice an no one would criticise you I am sure, but it wont prolong your warranty in any way, so why really bother.

 

If you cut open your filter after your 12 month service you will still see shearings/particles reflecting in your oil especially if you are a low mileage rider.

 

If you wanted to be really anal about it you should be doing an oil and filter change at 50, 100, 250, 500 but again will this make the engine last longer, I doubt it. Were talking about a Honda 750 lump here not a GP racing bike.

Edited June 29, 2014 by scara

[JAHBLESS 11]

I'm not sure what Misinformation Tex has really given, he is right modern cars go 12 months/12000 miles before a first service.

You too though are right about the shearings on a new engine during the break in period.

Some people do change the oil and filter during the first 100 miles, but I bet you their engines wont last any longer than someone that waits until the first running in service.

As Tex says though it is your money and your choice an no one would criticise you I am sure, but it wont prolong your warranty in any way, so why really bother.

 

If you cut open your filter after your 12 month service you will still see shearings/particles reflecting in your oil especially if you are a low mileage rider.

 

If you wanted to be really anal about it you should be doing an oil and filter change at 50, 100, 250, 500 but again will this make the engine last longer, I doubt it. Were talking about a Honda 750 lump here not a GP racing bike.

 

GP racing bikes have their oil changed after every race session, granted an NC is no race bike but the engine works the same way and is under similar stresses of friction and heat, it's not like you're comparing an F1 engine to a car engine is it!

 

Manufacturers service intervals are a limit that shouldn't be exceeded, they are not a 'use by date' for the full effectiveness of your oil which will have long passed if you wait 12,000 miles to change it no matter what engine it is.

 

No two engines are the same and neither is their use, oil needs vary. I wouldn't like to bet on the longevity of the engines that waited 600 miles for the running in service alone but I bet the engines that were regularly serviced before schedule throughout their life last a lot longer than those that went by the book.

 

My plan for oil changes are 120, 600(service), 1,200, 2,200 then every 4,000, maybe less . A properly broken in engine that has had regular oil changes has more power, is more efficient and will last longer than one that has had only the manufacturers recommended service intervals. It amazes me how people can so confidently disregard the importance of fresh oil, it's the life blood of the engine that serves to cool, clean and lubricate, nothing works better to prolong the life of an engine than regular oil changes. 

 

For Tex to disregard a 100 mile oil change as a waste of money then quote the service book just sums it up really, I guess I asked my question in the wrong place.

[Slowboy 20,532]

Modern oils are good for very high mileages between changes, my audi a1 diesel manages 18,000 miles between then and that's running lovely after nearly 30,000 miles. Bikes mostly share oil with the gearbox, ( not the DCT) which is what shreds the long chain molecules, but my NC is running fine after 20k on the factory oil changes, I'd expect that to be the case after 100,000 miles on this engine. There's nothing like an oil thread to get everyone going though.

[DMB 1,341]

As a long-time reader of Honest John's colum in the Saturday Telegraph's Motoring section (Honest John is a seasoned second-hand car dealer with an incredible knowledge bank), I would mention that HJ has for many years advocated changing one's oil more frequently than manufacturers recommend.  I believe he suggests doubling the frequency.  I also recall reading that Addison Lee, the taxi firm that run 3,000 odd Ford Galaxys (as well as other vehicles), change their oil sooner than recommended by manufacturers.  My recollection was that it was half the recommended mileages, but I can't find confirmation of this.  I see from their website that they service their vehicles every 10,000 miles rather than the manufacturer's recommended 12,000 miles.  One would imagine they do this for very good commercial reasons.  I would guess that the same principle extends to a motorbike.

[Guest andrem]

What brands are available in regards to after market brands? I didn't find anything on castrol, which is the only one i've checked.

[JAHBLESS 11]

http://www.theoillab.co.uk/fuel-testing?Pid=12&Sid=21

 

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

 

There's a bit more to declaring your mileage and saying everything's running fine, again I'm no expert but I'm used to consulting the experts and doing my own work wherever feasibly possible so that's probably the difference here.

 

I have rebuilt a number of basic engines in my time, 2 stroke and 4 stroke out of an interest and appreciation for engineering. I've taken a number of engines past the 200,000 miles mark, I've even took an Audi A4 to 300,000 miles without rebuilding it and on the same turbo, it's impossible to prove but I'm sure those miles wouldn't have been achieved if the previous owner and I had allowed Audi to take care of the servicing every 18,000 miles. I could tell you all kinds of horror stories relating to the low level of service and workmanship when it comes to main dealers but I wouldn't want to further offend anybody here because I can already see they are held in the highest regard, I trust them usually no further than a warranty claim, the supply of parts and the use of diagnostic equipment, sometimes any of those can be a big ask.

[scara 354]

I don't think anyone doubts the importance of an oil change, I think it is a personal choice whether you want to change at the recommended intervals or sooner though. If you do then fill your boots and I don't think anyone should criticise you for doing it, likewise if people wish to follow the manufacturers recommendations I don't see how criticism can be leveled at them. As you say the way each engine is used is as different as the person owning it. 

 

I think you are wrong in your assumption that all dealers are held in the highest regard, there are good and bad whether it be car or motorcycle dealers, I can only speak of my dealership who I do hold in high regard. However I do agree with you that the only way you can be sure of anything uses the old addage if you want it doing do it yourself, which is what I do whenever possible when it is out of warranty. it may be interesting when many miles have passed to compare the reliability of your bike with someones who has simply followed the servicing schedule.

[JAHBLESS 11]

I don't think anyone doubts the importance of an oil change, I think it is a personal choice whether you want to change at the recommended intervals or sooner though. If you do then fill your boots and I don't think anyone should criticise you for doing it, likewise if people wish to follow the manufacturers recommendations I don't see how criticism can be leveled at them. As you say the way each engine is used is as different as the person owning it. 

 

I think you are wrong in your assumption that all dealers are held in the highest regard, there are good and bad whether it be car or motorcycle dealers, I can only speak of my dealership who I do hold in high regard. However I do agree with you that the only way you can be sure of anything uses the old addage if you want it doing do it yourself, which is what I do whenever possible when it is out of warranty. it may be interesting when many miles have passed to compare the reliability of your bike with someones who has simply followed the servicing schedule.

 

I find it strange that I have to spell this out for you again but this isn't simply about addressing the "importance of an oil change" my point is that you doubt the importance of an 'early' oil change and suggest that the recommended oil service intervals are just as effective as any early oil service and they likely to make no difference to reliability, you are quite simply wrong.

 

You tell me I'm wrong for saying that all dealers are held in the highest regard outside of this thread which is wrong because I did not! within this thread was the only attitude towards dealers I was referring to though my general mistrust for dealers is something I won't deny. Misconstruing seems to be quiet the theme with you, I'm not here to bicker or find approval of my experience and knowledge, I simply joined this forum to receive and offer helpful advice wherever possible, anyway this is getting daft now, the facts are the facts surrounding early oil changes and they are backed up by science or any experienced tech, anybody know which grade oil my NC left the factory with?

[scara 354]

Regarding your comments about dealers, I misread the post I offer you my apologies over this.

 

As for the EARLY oil change yes I do doubt on our machines it serves any purpose, you clearly believe differently using your experience and knowledge which I am unaware of.

 

I did actually say whether you want to wait for the recommended intervals or sooner, which is what you are doing is it not doing it sooner.

 

I too have read reports in favour and also reports which are not, its down to personal choice at the end of the day. Lets not fall out over it for.

 

Just do your oil change and go out for a ride while we still have the glorious weather

 

Surely the head techie at your dealership can provide you with the details of the oil ( I know you said the person who sold you the bike didn't know but I'm assuming he was a salesman)

Edited June 30, 2014 by scara

[Dave H 2,022]

I change the oil in my bikes in the Spring, but as I don't do much mileage I never get near the recommended interval.  Its much the same with the car.  The garage put long life oil in my Audi and say they don't need to see it again for 20K but I get them to replace it annually at about 7.5K.

I read somewhere that fully synthetic oil will last indefinitely, theoretically, as long as the filters are doing the job properly.  Modern oils are supposed to hold particles in suspension until filtered out as well as containing detergents to keep everything clean.

[usabikes 440]

Sounds like you're onto it Dave. Only suggestion i would offer for consideration is to do the annual oil & filter change just as it's getting too wintery to ride rather than in the Spring so that nice clean non-acidic oil is sitting in it during any winter layup or low use period. I'm aware that I'm offerring unsolicited advice but hope it's accepted in the spirit offerred.

Independent tests on Mobil 1 showed a zero wear rate in engines due to friction. Sadly since then Mobil has used the legal loophole & lowered their synths quality, but looking elsewhere their are still top oils available.

Trying to find a NZ firm to undertake oil analysis testing for my NC but having no joy thus far...

Purolator Pureone seems a top synthetic oil filter which you might find suits your usage (which sounds similar to mine).

Cheers Dave!

[Tex 36,817]

I was going to let this pass, but, well, to accuse me of contributing misinformation is a bit much. You are, by your own admission, 'no expert'. That much is obvious from your posts. The truth of the matter is as follows..

 

For the last decade and a half automotive industry best practice has seen all new engines run on a dyno after assembly - either on an engine dyno (where the engine is being shipped off to another factory for fitting to a vehicle) or on a rolling road. The operator runs the engine to the redline through the gears (yes! really!) and ensures that all performance criteria are met. The engine oil is then drained, the sump re-filled with fresh oil, and the vehicle despatched.

 

There is no reason to do your 'critical' first oil change - the factory did it before you even saw the bike.  

 

I know this to be true having seen it with my own eyes at the Triumph factory in Hinckley. And to the best of my knowledge and belief all the other makers do the same, Honda certainly do not lag behind anyone in the automotive manufacturing industry. As I say, this has been the case for a number of years and I thought everybody knew it. Obviously not.

 

So confident am I that your additional oil changing will have NO measureable affect on anything, other than your own state of mind, I invite you to take part in the following challenge..

 

We both have new NC750's. You run yours in and service it as you like, while I will follow the Honda recommended service schedule. When both bikes have done, say, 2,000 miles we will meet up and dyno test both of them. If you're right and your bike makes significantly more power than mine (more than can be explained away than by mere manufacturing tolerance difference) then I will pay for the dyno time. If you're wrong, and both bikes are equal, you can pay.

 

As to your 'expert techs' - how much expertise and experience would you like? I began my career in the motor trade in January 1968 working for a Rootes Group dealership (Hillman, Singer, Sunbeam motor cars) went on to run a Honda 5 star (motorcycle) workshop, left the industry for a period and worked as a service engineer in the fire protection industry (boring) before returning and spending many years working for the AA. I took early retirement from that and now top up my pension driving a van for a motor factors a couple of days a week. I have long been involved in motorcycle racing both as a rider and mechanic. I currently work for the best Classic race team in the country - unpaid, but I do get free trips to places as varied as Phillip Island and the Isle of Man - where top riders rely on my skills.

 

I shall be doing the first service on my bike tomorrow. (The dealership I bought it from is the same one I worked at all those years ago and that gets me a few privileges - such as assisting with my own PDI and servicing) and shall use whatever oil they say is best.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Tex

[JAHBLESS 11]

I was going to let this pass, but, well, to accuse me of contributing misinformation is a bit much. You are, by your own admission, 'no expert'. That much is obvious from your posts. The truth of the matter is as follows..

 

For the last decade and a half automotive industry best practice has seen all new engines run on a dyno after assembly - either on an engine dyno (where the engine is being shipped off to another factory for fitting to a vehicle) or on a rolling road. The operator runs the engine to the redline through the gears (yes! really!) and ensures that all performance criteria are met. The engine oil is then drained, the sump re-filled with fresh oil, and the vehicle despatched.

 

There is no reason to do your 'critical' first oil change - the factory did it before you even saw the bike.  

 

I know this to be true having seen it with my own eyes at the Triumph factory in Hinckley. And to the best of my knowledge and belief all the other makers do the same, Honda certainly do not lag behind anyone in the automotive manufacturing industry. As I say, this has been the case for a number of years and I thought everybody knew it. Obviously not.

 

So confident am I that your additional oil changing will have NO measureable affect on anything, other than your own state of mind, I invite you to take part in the following challenge..

 

We both have new NC750's. You run yours in and service it as you like, while I will follow the Honda recommended service schedule. When both bikes have done, say, 2,000 miles we will meet up and dyno test both of them. If you're right and your bike makes significantly more power than mine (more than can be explained away than by mere manufacturing tolerance difference) then I will pay for the dyno time. If you're wrong, and both bikes are equal, you can pay.

 

As to your 'expert techs' - how much expertise and experience would you like? I began my career in the motor trade in January 1968 working for a Rootes Group dealership (Hillman, Singer, Sunbeam motor cars) went on to run a Honda 5 star (motorcycle) workshop, left the industry for a period and worked as a service engineer in the fire protection industry (boring) before returning and spending many years working for the AA. I took early retirement from that and now top up my pension driving a van for a motor factors a couple of days a week. I have long been involved in motorcycle racing both as a rider and mechanic. I currently work for the best Classic race team in the country - unpaid, but I do get free trips to places as varied as Phillip Island and the Isle of Man - where top riders rely on my skills.

 

I shall be doing the first service on my bike tomorrow. (The dealership I bought it from is the same one I worked at all those years ago and that gets me a few privileges - such as assisting with my own PDI and servicing) and shall use whatever oil they say is best.

 

So for asking a simple question about the oil in my NC it has to come to this! Your idea about meeting for the dyno run is as ridiculous as somebody who attempts to americanise themself, seriously I thought you was having some sort of joke until I looked at your page then it was clear there's obviously something going on with you, I feel a bit out of order for laughing and having to bring it up, live and let live and all that but you're starting to irritate me.

 

So back to your daft idea, if I was going to challenge your theory and risk wasting my time I'd want to do it properly and conclusively which a dyno run would fail to do. To do it properly would require pressure tests, oil analysis and exhaust gas testing as well as the dyno, wouldn't cost much more in money but certainly would in time and if you didn't address me in such a condescending way with your every post I would accept the challenge but in a much more conclusive way as mentioned, no to prove a point but out of interest and for the good of this forum.

 

I've only come across people like you online and it's people like you who ruin forums, don't you have a wife to argue with, is this where you come for your social interaction or to say the things you wouldn't dream of saying in the real world? where I'm from it's common knowledge that the man who says he's about it usually isn't.

 

I'm still no expert and still don't know what oil my engine's carrying, what I do know is that you're being assumptive about Honda manufacturing process and carrying on like somebody who knows only the basics when it comes to engines no matter what experience you claim to have, you must do a lot of reading and dreaming. If I want to know anything about big rigs or line dancing I'll send you a pm, until then stay away from my posts and I'll stay away from yours, the same goes for your boyfriends who have or will be voting your comment.

[scara 354]

So for asking a simple question about the oil in my NC it has to come to this! Your idea about meeting for the dyno run is as ridiculous as somebody who attempts to americanise themself, seriously I thought you was having some sort of joke until I looked at your page then it was clear there's obviously something going on with you, I feel a bit out of order for laughing and having to bring it up, live and let live and all that but you're starting to irritate me.

 

So back to your daft idea, if I was going to challenge your theory and risk wasting my time I'd want to do it properly and conclusively which a dyno run would fail to do. To do it properly would require pressure tests, oil analysis and exhaust gas testing as well as the dyno, wouldn't cost much more in money but certainly would in time and if you didn't address me in such a condescending way with your every post I would accept the challenge but in a much more conclusive way as mentioned, no to prove a point but out of interest and for the good of this forum.

 

I've only come across people like you online and it's people like you who ruin forums, don't you have a wife to argue with, is this where you come for your social interaction or to say the things you wouldn't dream of saying in the real world? where I'm from it's common knowledge that the man who says he's about it usually isn't.

 

I'm still no expert and still don't know what oil my engine's carrying, what I do know is that you're being assumptive about Honda manufacturing process and carrying on like somebody who knows only the basics when it comes to engines no matter what experience you claim to have, you must do a lot of reading and dreaming. If I want to know anything about big rigs or line dancing I'll send you a pm, until then stay away from my posts and I'll stay away from yours, the same goes for your boyfriends who have or will be voting your comment.

Blimey dude you need to take a chill pill and relax a bit, yes we wont always agree with each other, yes there will be debate but there is no need to get personal surely. Lets all be   . After all were all here for a common reason and that's motorcycling    .

[JAHBLESS 11]

Blimey dude you need to take a chill pill and relax a bit, yes we wont always agree with each other, yes there will be debate but there is no need to get personal surely. Lets all be   . After all were all here for a common reason and that's motorcycling    .

 

All I did was ask a question and explain what I was doing. I was replied to in a patronising way, forum or not I don't accept ignorance or people coming across like I am beneath them, manners cost nothing and until you forget them we're all equal, chill pill not needed I can assure you.

[usabikes 440]

A few years ago there was a guy on a pommie bike forum who verbally thumped everyone he even suspected of disagreeing with him - he read a personal insult into every comment. He was very hard to like, to say the least. 6 months later we heard that the cancer he'd been fighting had finally got him. Turned out he had no close family to support him through that time. No wonder some of the few people he had contact with got his stress aimed at them.

Whenever I am tempted to react to a comment I remember him.

[JAHBLESS 11]

A few years ago there was a guy on a pommie bike forum who verbally thumped everyone he even suspected of disagreeing with him - he read a personal insult into every comment. He was very hard to like, to say the least. 6 months later we heard that the cancer he'd been fighting had finally got him. Turned out he had no close family to support him through that time. No wonder some of the few people he had contact with got his stress aimed at them.

Whenever I am tempted to react to a comment I remember him.

 

One person disagreed with me in a condescending manner and you suggest I accept that or be disliked, be suspected of being terminally ill or have no family to support me? I react whenever somebody is ignorant or tries to belittle me and I don't care about what levels it may have to go to or what other people think, my pride is worth more to me than that, I can also whole heartedly assure that your use of the derogatory term 'pommie' would land you in extremely hot water if you used it in my direction in the real world. Fortunately the need to defend my self respect in the real world happens very rarely and it's only happened once on this forum, well maybe twice now you've commented to show your allegiance to the person who offended me. I understand why because it's obvious my comments may have offended you also, I also understand defending friends no matter if they're right or wrong, what I don't understand is your advice to somebody you don't know on how they should react when they've been offended, I find it patronising and even a little bit cringe worthy on your part, anyway this is getting ridiculous now, stop knocking my door and allow me to enjoy this forum and my bike, I have to say this thread has been the worst part of my NC ownership so far, I was warned though.

 

To bring closure to my thread I'd like to announce that I've refreshed my engine with 10W-30 break in oil, I'll start a new thread later with photos of what came out.