NC700X DCT Gearbox issue

[makman 975]

Hmmm.  I don't seem to be able to get to the bottom of this one.  It could be that the shifter pin in the gearbox has gone.  

 

The fault happens when I come to a standstill at traffic lights.  Not all the time, but 2 or 3 times on the commute to and from my London offices over a 14 mile ride one way.

 

Turning the bike off and on again allows it to clunk back into D or S mode.  Bike has FSH, valves are in spec.  Under 21K miles on the clocks.

 

Fresh oil, new battery.  No problems starting or changing gears when on the move.  Smooth and quiet.  Good chain tension, cleaned and lubed chain,.  All connectors for the gearbox sensors are clean and connect well.

 

So I seem to have to stump up the cost of a shifter pin and the labour to change it.  Any ideas of cost on getting this done or mechanics to recommend?  I am okay to travel a bit to get it sorted if the price is worth the hit.  I live in SE2 London.

 

It is item 6 or 23 on this web page: https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5571906/nc700x-dual-cluth-abs-2013-magna-red-any-nc700xdd/gearshift-drum-nc700xd

 

I am not sure which pin the others were talking about when they described their maladies. 

[Guest KeithReeder]

Anything like this, Gordon?

 

 

[makman 975]

Similar. It gets stuck in 1st gear.  Turn off and on again and I can select D or S mode.  Stop at next set of lights and it is pot luck whether it will do it again. Did it to me this morning at the top of my street, 30 seconds into the commute. I warm the bike up for a couple of minutes before riding.  It did not do it again for the whole ride to work.  Did it three times on the way home this afternoon.

[trisaki 2,029]

What oil are you using  

Edited February 14, 2018 by trisaki

[makman 975]

Castrol 10W30.  The right stuff in other words.  Coolant was flushed, checked and refilled.  No air gaps.  Coolant is at correct levels, oil is a correct levels.  Not too sure what is left for me to suspect other than the possibility of the shifter pin having gone "ping"... but that would be more catastrophic right?  

 

Seriously thinking of trading the bike in on a NC750X DCT.... but don't like not having solved the issue. 

[Tonyj 6,907]

Move it on and get a new one 😀

[makman 975]

8 hours ago, Tonyj said:

Move it on and get a new one 😀

Yebbut what year, model and most importantly what colour!!! I just cannot make up my mind!  Looks like it will be red/black/blue or a mix of the lot.

[Tonyj 6,907]

Well I've got the red and to be fair it's grown on me . Would like the honda tri colour in it really .😀 always a good excuse to buy another bike 

meant to add , life's too short to fix everything get yourself down to Kent honda . Mention my name and you will be treated like a prince . 😀 that as in he will over charge ŷou just for knowing me 😆😆😆. 

No they won't Hadrian and his team are great blokes . He will however do his best for you . Both rocker and me use this place and give glowing reference and we are diametrically different in customer needs to a point. Try him , tell him your woes and he will do his best . He sorted my run over scooter out , gave me a good trade in when it was poorly .couldnt be any fairer then that. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Tonyj

[Tex 36,817]

I could point you to a dealer. And if you mention my name they’ll give you special treatment (charge you double and frisk you when you leave..)  

 

Good luck. 

[makman 975]

Thanks chaps. I'll peruse the finances (chat to the wife) and think about it seriously over the next week or so.

[pjm 6,041]

Can you clarify. Are you saying it stays in first when you come to a halt or that when you move off it stays in first and does not change up? 

Have you tried manual mode? I thought when the pin sheared that was it and nothing could be done. If it is not shifting correctly I think that's another issue. Is that the correct oil? As I have read previously how fussy the DCT can be to using the precise oil specified by Honda.

[Defender 3,837]

I'm reading this with interest as my '700X is on roughly the same mileage and can't be much older, so I'm wondering if this is a mileage related issue or there are some other factors involved?

It would be interesting to know exactly which bit is at fault?

 

[embee 7,288]

2 hours ago, pjm said:

......I have read previously how fussy the DCT can be to using the precise oil specified by Honda.

I think that's maybe overstating it a bit, someone reading this from fresh might think using a different oil will cause all sorts of issues. Honda recommend a 10W30, though for higher ambients a 10W40 will be fine (owners' manual chart shows the ranges). Bear in mind the nominal oil bandings cover a range of permissible actual viscosities, so one make of 10W30 might be only fractionally different to another 10W40.

Honda obviously calibrated the DCT system to work with a variety of oils but it is probably optimised for one value (maybe mid-range?), and they fitted an oil temperature sensor to tailor the system to take account of the different oil characteristics with temperature. As long as you use something within their recommended scales it will work fine.

[embee 7,288]

18 hours ago, makman said:

It is item 6 or 23 on this web page: https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5571906/nc700x-dual-cluth-abs-2013-magna-red-any-nc700xdd/gearshift-drum-nc700xd

 

I am not sure which pin the others were talking about when they described their maladies. 

It is item 6. Item 23 just provides a stop for the return spring to sit against.

I seem to recall someone paid around £200 for this to be changed.

I did my own as a precaution, I didn't want this happening while I was off touring the continent. It seems to have affected only a small number of 700 DCT bikes, and most of those seem to have been Integras. I suspect it was a batch issue with the pin, and Integra engines are different because of the colours of various engine cases/water pump etc, so they may have been built as a production run together. This pin has been used on many Honda bikes historically so was probably fundamentally sound, just a batch incorrectly manufactured (it appears to be a friction welded assembly and the weld fails, or so it is suspected). The part number was changed for later versions so they may have changed the manufacture method, part numbers change either when they are not interchangeable or the manufacturer wants the original items to no longer be used for reliability reasons etc. I believe they are interchangeable so the newer item should be used (this needs to be verified).

Considering the time involved (especially on the Integra with removing bodywork) this is not an unreasonable figure, it will take several hours by the time the parts are cleaned etc. It isn't actually a difficult job and no special tools are involved, but it is time consuming.

[makman 975]

3 hours ago, pjm said:

Can you clarify. Are you saying it stays in first when you come to a halt or that when you move off it stays in first and does not change up? 

Have you tried manual mode? I thought when the pin sheared that was it and nothing could be done. If it is not shifting correctly I think that's another issue. Is that the correct oil? As I have read previously how fussy the DCT can be to using the precise oil specified by Honda.

It gives the "bar" line on the display and stays in 1st. I cannot change into D or S or manual mode or use the manual switches to change gear.

[Defender 3,837]

You've probably already done done this, but have you tried a DCT reset/recalibration?

[makman 975]

1 hour ago, Defender said:

You've probably already done done this, but have you tried a DCT reset/recalibration?

 

Yup. Last time was two days ago and it has cut a few times since then... I really love the DCT, it is fabulous and the bike itself is great fun to ride, but there is something not quite right with the gears.  Annoying to be honest!

[Tex 36,817]

5 hours ago, makman said:

It gives the "bar" line on the display and stays in 1st. I cannot change into D or S or manual mode or use the manual switches to change gear.

 

Didn’t Alice have something similar on her first Integra?

[makman 975]

What turned out to be the root cause for Alice?  I'd be keen to know because if it is a simple fix, I will keep the bike.  Less hassle changing insurance and all that.

[Tex 36,817]

It was a speed sensor inside the gearbox. She ended up with a pelican (big bill). Obviously I don’t know that it’s the same fault but it sounds remarkably similar. Because the speed sensor isn’t sending a signal to the ECU it doesn’t/can’t/won’t allow a gear change so you’re stuck in gear with a dash showing. 

 

Edit: Here you are. It’s in this thread. Inner main shaft speed sensor. £140 plus fitting.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Tex

[pjm 6,041]

I thought Alice was pin 6 problem?

[Tex 36,817]

6 minutes ago, pjm said:

I thought Alice was pin 6 problem?

 

No. Read the link I posted. A speed sensor.

[pjm 6,041]

Missed the edit. I suppose by modern costs £140 is a cheap fix.

[Rocker66 34,456]

14 minutes ago, pjm said:

Missed the edit. I suppose by modern costs £140 is a cheap fix.

It’s the “plus fitting” that could be a big consideration. I have no idea how long the job takes.

[embee 7,288]

The DCT has a diagnostic system like the engine. Interrogation should come up with the area of the fault, even if it doesn't identify the exact item at fault. Check the workshop manual. No point guessing at expensive stuff.