Broke off the ignition key in the lock

[bluemak 215]

There's a good choice on that auction site, from 250g drums, to easy use puffers (50g) and a man who sells it loose in a bag.

(I am trying not to use tax avoiders - In three years from 2009 to 2011, Amazon earned more than £7bn in the UK but paid just £2.3m in corporation tax.)

Even the BBC are confusing turnover (sales) with profit.  Think of Comet - they sold £100 of Millions and went bust.

[Guest EasyTiger]

I wish the guy measuring out my graphite grain by grain into an envelope good luck. Should I really feel very sorry for Amazon? They racked up $21.27 billion in sales for the last quarter of 2012 -- an increase of 22% from a year earlier. But for all those billions, it managed to only squeak out a meager $97 million in profits -- a margin of less than half a percent. And for the first quarter of 2013, it projects somewhere between a $65 million profit and a $285 million loss. Companies like Amazon (based In Luxembourg, whose VAT rate on electronic sales is 3%, where it can outcompete UK-based digital e-book sellers who must charge 20%) and Starbucks are never likely to make a profit in a serious tax country.

 

Since first opening its doors in Britain in 1998 Starbucks has paid only £8.6m in corporate income taxes here. Starbucks has said this was because it had made a profit in only one year in Britain. Its British business has made large payments for coffee to a profitable Starbucks subsidiary in that well-known coffee-growing nation, Switzerland, and large royalty payments to another profitable subsidiary in the Netherlands for use of the Starbucks name and intellectual property. They have negotiated a secret low rate of tax in Holland...so guess where the profits will be made. It's all entirely legal, of course. And of course, I can't deny that Amazon's service is fantastic. But if there's a local tax-paying option or an independent coffee shop, I will use it where I can.

 

that auction site?  The world's largest online marketplace is structured in a way that allows it to dramatically reduce its UK tax liability. According to an investigation by The Sunday Times, using a group-wide profit margin of 23 per cent, that auction site's UK profits would have been £181million in 2010. At the time this would have resulted in a corporation tax bill of £51million.

But the total amount of tax paid by the firm's four main UK-based subsidiaries for that year was £1.2million.

This is partially down to the fact that fees stumped up by that auction site sellers in Britain are handed over to a related company in Luxembourg called PayPal (Europe) Sarl, meaning most sales are channelled through a tax haven.

None of this would be possible for you or me or most small businesses...

 

Edited February 18, 2013 by EasyTiger

[ncmf 87]

im less sympathetic to Starbucks, as I dont see the welfare that they bring, they just pump us full of calories and run with the money.  Some people might enjoy thier starbucks and not see it this way, but to me it a world gone mad drinking that muck at a fiver a go.

 

But for a business like amazon, that brings real benefit then I say give them a break.  Perhaps if they did have to pay all that tax then it might make thier low margins not worth the effort, and we would have to buy from a bunch of different distributors and we wouldnt get the service/choice that we enjoy now.  I say give more power to them.

 

And think of all the other business they are enabling, as well as the staff they employ (although its not a massive workforce here - but then that just shows how efficient they are!)

 

The big businesses get a bashing in the media, and sometimes I think its overdone.

[tc3 1,095]

Bloody hell ... I have not been following this thread and opened it to the last post. How much off topic can it get with business talk about Starbucks and Amazon 

Edited February 18, 2013 by tc3

[Guest EasyTiger]

HIGH NOON ON THE FORUM

'Twas the months after Christmas
And all through the net
Controversy was building
Tempers put to the test

The forumites were stirring
All smug in their views
Insane and extreme posts
Flowed fast and flowed loose.

Ted hustled
From one board to anuther
Whacking the odd dealer
And editing some others

Explaining the rules
For the ten-thousandth time
It’s not that complex
What’s wrong with these guys?

Cruising the posts
Now what the heck’s up?
Oh crap, not him again
Will that guy ever shut up?

“ You've got the wrong oil!”, “You're never off the 'puter!”
“You post too much!”, “You ride a scooter!”

“I’ll buy you a beer, if I don’t kill you first.”
“Hey I don’t even ride!”, “Hey I hate your football shirt!”

What’s wrong with these guys?
Well the problem’s well known
It’s PMS again (Parked Motorbike Syndrome)
Exactly like last year.

So what do we do for this seasonal ill?
Do we ban? Do we cancel?

Do we change? Do we kill?

“Let’s vote!”, scream the few
“Let’s quit!”, says another
“Let’s all praise admin...”
Says one enthusiastic brother

On every topic some “experts” must post
Intent to divide, and a post count to make most.
“This’ll make these guys riled, regardless of merit
Wait, no one’s arguing? I MUST dangle this carrot!”

Civility and restraint would calm this with reason
“But I've got a point to prove! And hey, tis the season!”

“Shut up all you guys!” say some, “I’ll take my ball and go home!”
Feeding the trolls they are, the equivalent of filet mignon.

“Off –topic's should go elsewhere”
Screams part of the hoard
“But,” groans Ted,
“It’s the off-topic board!”

Poor Ted stares dumbfounded
And puts his head down a bit
“Don’t these guys realise
I don’t get paid for this sh!t?”

As for this boy from Bristol
Does he have any advice?
Well yes, we darn fools,
Just try to be nice!

Don’t like a topic?
Don’t check out that note
There’s plenty to read
That won’t get your goat

Ticked off ‘bout that guy?
Gonna give him what-for?
Calm yourself a moment
There’s no need to roar.

I’ll leave you with this
‘Cause right now I’m fried
After a Happy New Year to you all,
Risk those dodgy locks and just RIDE!

(with apologies to Daniel Meyer)

Edited February 19, 2013 by EasyTiger

[Guest scrumpymike]

Nice one Jeremy - but what ARE we going to do about these broken keys? Not sure if Ted's looking (he's probably lying down in a darkened room by now) but if he is: I wonder if we should consider using this forum as a vehicle for organising and submitting petitions on issues that we feel really strongly about. No, not corporate tax dodgers, stoopid, but NC-related stuff like cheesy keys and sticky locks.

 

I know - I'll start another topic!

[Guest EasyTiger]

Posting on common problems can be very useful. It allows riders to know that theirs is not an isolated case when they approach dealers, and other posters may have suggested fixes (graphite dust for the locks?).

There were a lot of complaints about vibes on the Mk1 Versys. Two years later, when the Mk2 appeared the engine was now mounted on rubber and the pegs beefed up too - so the sheer number of posts and their volume may have had an effect. I am not sure that major manufacturers bother much about technical feedback from a formal owners' association, (I haven't noticed it with Guzzis), but I am willing to be corrected if others have positive experience.

[Guest scrumpymike]

Hi Jeremy, I've taken the liberty of copying your post over to the new 'petitioning' topic I've started in The Lounge and replied to it there.

[Guest Emil]

An update: I wasn't able to turn back the lock even with only the central H-shaped part of the key which I had cut out.

Now the bike was transported to the dealer who already took out the unit. Apparently lock, ignition and immo reading coil are one single (expensive) part..

The foreman told me he is not sure if new keys can be adapted or if the ECU has to be swapped (!). A warrantly claim was already rejected by Honda, but he will talk to the representative in person tomorrow. He doesn't have much hope though.

I wonder if I should take the unit to a locksmith. It's cast in epoxy or something but maybe he can get it out. If it has to be swapped, I could also try mating the new keys to the old transponder (welding?) to avoid an ECU swap if no adaption is possible.

[Guest Emil]

Next update: the locksmith managed to fix the lock. The spare part (afaik a complete new set of locks) would've cost >400 EUR!

[wozza 967]

Next update: the locksmith managed to fix the lock. The spare part (afaik a complete new set of locks) would've cost >400 EUR!

Glad to see you've managed to get it sorted. What a load of messing about because Honda won't use decent locks.

[Guest Emil]

Got the NC back today. I paid less than €130 and it seems the dealer didn't even bill the transport, plus they reacted quite quickly (next working day on all steps). And the locksmith just took €30.

Honda however will not even replace the key for free.

I checked the storage lock again and the upper part holding the cover is just too stiff. There are obvious stress marks on the cover's lock bracket. When applying WD40 there, it opens with the slightest turn of the key, but it gets rubbed off after 2x or 3x and then it's as stiff as before. One should definitely use a copy of the key made from durable material.Even then one has to be careful, that key's H-profile is not even a millimeter thick at the center.

[Guest Stu]

maplins sell lock graphite

http://www.maplin.co.uk/graphite-lock-lubricant-444745

[Guest The Mad Jock]

Regarding keys, I had a spare cut at Timpsons yesterday for use in the fuel/not-the-tank lock, cost me £7.50 and took him 30 seconds.  Too early to say if it's better quality than original.

 

He also says he can do an immobiliser chip version (therefore a direct and full replacement for original) for £25.  He was adamant it would start the bike, anybody know for sure?

[Guest Emil]

Well possible. They're just simple RFID chips and with the right equipment you can copy them.

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

 It's also possible to program extra keys yourself. You have to switch the ECU into 'learning mode' to get it to pair up with keys by making up a lead to attach to the battery and ECU via the crankshaft sensor plug.

A quick search on Google will show you how, all depends how brave or desperate you are.  

[Guest Emil]

Not sure if this still works with the latest Keihin models.

Either way, you need some kind of transponder, so why not give it the correct data..

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

 According to a Honda mechanic I spoke to this still works, obviously the key has to have the correct type of RF transponder.

  Here's a fairly http://ecu-master.co.uk/page/13'>informative link

[Guest NCXrookie]

Good idea to have a non transponder key cut for not the tank / fuel lock. The only thing to remember is to take the key out of the ignition when you stop to fill up. Otherwise someone could ride off on your steed when you go to pay at the kiosk. 

[Mike5100 2,061]

remind me again why we would want a separate key just for the the nottank/fuel cap ? 

Mike

[Guest Emil]

See post #38. The storage lock can wear out the key, which will give you problems when using it in the ignition lock

http://www.nc700.co.uk/index.php?/topic/3869-broke-off-the-ignition-key-in-the-lock/page-2#entry27801

@Derek

Requires special equipment though. I think producing a 1:1 copy of the existing key is easier. It's usually just a primitive RFID chip storing 4 bytes of data.

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

 The 'special equipment' can be made very easily, Google is your friend.

  You do need the correct chip in the key fob, I think it's a Type 46 #Honda, the easiest way to get one is probably buy a genuine Honda blank.

However getting an existing key duplicated by a locksmith, or even Timpsons ( a UK cobbler/shoe repairer), is probably the easiest route.

[Guest Emil]

The link to that tool doesn't work, I thought it was some programmer.

The original keys from Honda are not that expensive, also I still have the chip from the key I broke..

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

The link to that tool doesn't work, I thought it was some programmer.

The original keys from Honda are not that expensive, also I still have the chip from the key I broke..

 The special 'tool' is just a cable with a resistor and a couple of crocodile clips and a connector for the crankshaft speed sensor connector.

   Have a look at [url=http://www.bikersoracle.com/cbr600/forum/showthread.php?t=11809this forum posting.

If you can substitute your exisitng chip for the one in a new key, after getting the blank key cut, everything should work ok. ( In theory)  

[Guest Monkeyuk]

dont go to timpson as they are over priced and suck ass, you need an independent auto locksmith if you get the blank just take it and they will cut and code the key mostly for under £30 if they supply the blank it could go upto £50 and call around honda dealers as u might get a better deal on the key if you do