generic back brake problem

[Mike5100 2,061]

I only visit the USA forum occasionally (because I am on too many forums  ).  But I noticed on there a very interesting thread about a potential issue affecting the back brake of a number of bikes.  In essence one guy believes that a part has been drilled and tapped out of square with the consequence that the rear calliper is not at right angles to the disk rotor.  The symptom is no back brake at all until the pads wear to a strange chamfered shape and begin to grip.  This described my NC700X perfectly, and it took several thousand miles before the brake started to work - and it was brilliant by the time I parted with it at 14000 miles.  The problem is (if this diagnosis has any basis in fact) the next owner will have no back brake when he replaces the pads.

 

My apologies if there is a thread about this on this forum, but I haven't spotted it.

Mike

[Guest Southerner]

I remember not being that impressed by the rear brake on the 750X demo that I rode.

 

I wonder what mine will be like when I take delivery?!

[embee 7,288]

I've just found that thread and the pic he links to shows the pad retaining pin angled and it definitely doesn't look right. Had a look at mine and it's dead square, and the brake works exactly as I'd expect.

 

The caliper itself looks square but the pad pin looks angled, I would have thought this would just put one pad slightly higher than the other while they should still sit flat on the disc, but obviously having the bits there in front of him means he can judge thinge differently. Maybe there's more to this story.

[Guest Southerner]

Having thought about it, the rear brake on my 2011 Versys was crap too...!

[Mike5100 2,061]

Actually - so was mine John.  (A 58 Versys).  Maybe they bought their brake components from the same place as Honda 

Mike

[PNE 96]

May get people to use the front break more than the rear like its ment to be. On a serious note how can something like this get past quality control and surely there should be a recall if a fault like this exists. 

Edited February 10, 2014 by PNE

[Guest Gaz88]

I should be putting some new pads on mine some time this week so I'll keep an eye on this. Never had a problem before, but my bike had already done 2500 miles when I bought it.

[Guest scrumpymike]

If I remember right, a few cases of rear discs cracking were reported on this or the other NC forum last year - which may or may not relate to stresses resulting from what may or may not be a squiffy threaded hole!?   In any event, when I reported the poor back-brake performance of my new 700X to my Honda dealer a year ago, he said that it took a while for the disc and pads to bed down and that, even then, not to expect the foot brake on a CABS bike to feel as sharp as on bikes without the linked braking system. ("But mister, the rear brake on my CBF1000 CABS was keen as mustard!!") Not sure where all this takes us... guess it's just another case of 'watch this space'.

[Mike5100 2,061]

I should be putting some new pads on mine some time this week so I'll keep an eye on this. Never had a problem before, but my bike had already done 2500 miles when I bought it.

I think if you look at the calliper from the back of the bike and it appears square with the rotor, it's probably OK (going by the pics the guy has posted).  Certainly my new 750 looks square and the brake works fine.

Mike

[Guest wfhugo]

This is most interesting ! The only complaint I had when my NC700x was delivered exaclty 2 years ago, was "no rear brakes". The Bike went back to the local dealer (Cape Town, South Africa), and the verdict from Honda: "As good as it will ever get"

[Mike5100 2,061]

Have you still got it Francois? - if so, let us know whether the calliper looks square.

Mike

[nelmo 563]

Having thought about it, the rear brake on my 2011 Versys was crap too...!

 

 

Actually - so was mine John.  (A 58 Versys).  Maybe they bought their brake components from the same place as Honda 

Mike

 

Sorry, slightly off topic but 2 other ex-Versys owners? Glad I'm not the only one...

 

The rear brake on my NC is cr*p but I assumed that was due to the linked brakes (the 'front' brake is superb) - I'll have to check alignment on the back tonight. The rear on my 2011 Versys was OK, as good as my previous bikes (which is only adequate - rear brakes are never great).

[Guest Southerner]

 

Having thought about it, the rear brake on my 2011 Versys was crap too...!

 

 

Actually - so was mine John.  (A 58 Versys).  Maybe they bought their brake components from the same place as Honda 

Mike

 

Sorry, slightly off topic but 2 other ex-Versys owners? Glad I'm not the only one...

 

The rear brake on my NC is cr*p but I assumed that was due to the linked brakes (the 'front' brake is superb) - I'll have to check alignment on the back tonight. The rear on my 2011 Versys was OK, as good as my previous bikes (which is only adequate - rear brakes are never great).

 

Versys? great bike and enjoyed mine immensely. I had the MK2, I didn't care for the front of the Mk1 which had a headlight resembling a baboon's ar*se.

 

And yes, the rear brake on my NC is pretty rubbish at this time although I've only done 130 miles so far with not a lot of braking.

 

Perhaps it will improve in the next few hundred miles. Not sure what to do to improve it either...

[Mike5100 2,061]

Have you checkedif the caliper mounting pin is square John?

Mike

[Rev Ken 6,343]

ALL the Hondas I've owned have 'poor' back brakes - ABS or not. I think it is deliberate to avoid the possibility of locking up the rear wheel, especially in an emergency. As brakes become more efficient and tyres get improved grip, the less the need for a 'good' back brake as there is greater weight transfer on to the front wheel. I've got a photo of me testing a motorcycle brake meter showing my back wheel well clear of the road, so my rear brake added nothing to braking efficiency at this extreme.

[prr 153]

The rear break is useful when filtering at very low speed. In case of emergency breaking it hardly helps ... except the initial stability.

[Guest Southerner]

I think the 750X rear brake is too weak  - I'll mention this at the 600 mile service.  

[wozza 967]

I haven't noticed anything wrong with my rear brake so far.

[Guest Southerner]

Have you checkedif the caliper mounting pin is square John?

Mike

No I haven't yet Mike - will do this week. 

 

If the mounting pin isn't square, can something be done to improve it? 

[Mike5100 2,061]

I think it would be replacement parts under warranty.  The theory is that the housing into which the pin screws has been drilled out of square.  If the theory is correct then your back brake will gradually improve over thousands of miles as the pads wear at an angle that improves their contact patch.  The problem then is that when you need new ones, you'd be starting again

Mike

Edited March 6, 2014 by Mike5100

[Guest scrumpymike]

Not to mention uneven disc wear too.

[glencoeman 129]

I seem to have a similar problem with my NC700S. I have just removed the rear pads to grease the pins and copper slip the back of the pads. On reassembly, the brake is binding. Looking from the rear, the piston is not square to the disc. I will have a look tomorrow to try and pinpoint the problem.

[glencoeman 129]

Just an update on the rear brake caliper problem. The hole for the mounting pin had been tapped ofset and was not straight. I have been to the dealer who inspected the bike and then phoned Honda UK warranty department. They have had no other claims about this problem or been notified of any recalls. The dealer has now put in a claim and I should hear by the middle of next week what the situation is.

[Mike5100 2,061]

That sounds the exact description as per the thread on the USA forum.  Since there has been no discussion of the issue on this forum, I suspect Honda UK are technically correct, but I would be surprised if Honda Uk and Honda USA don't talk to each other.  Just wish I'd discovered the issue on my 700X from the outset isntead of when I was selling it.

Mike

[Guest scrumpymike]

"Just wish I'd discovered the issue on my 700X from the outset isntead of when I was selling it."

 

+1