Chain, again

[Guest esullivan]

My first chain lasted 12,000 miles. It was meticulously maintained (cleaned every other week, lubed every other day, etc.), but deteriorated quickly in the second half of its life. The current chain/sprocket is a combination of JT aftermarket sprockets and DID chain -- theoretically of higher spec than the Honda one, but it's also circling the drain after about 8,000 miles. For this one, I installed an oiler (tutoro), but cleaned it less (a wipe down every month or so). Didn't make any difference. After a 1,800-mile trip around Scotland, it has developed a ticking noise in the front sprocket (probably a chipped tooth) and I'll probably have to replace it this weekend.

Is the chain on the 750 any better? Has anyone had any luck getting a beefier (maybe 525 size) set on the NC? I love my NC, but the final drive is really rubbish. Honda needs a replacement for the Deauville -- something with a shaft drive that isn't the approximate size and weight of a tank...

[glencoeman 129]

You can fit a 525 set-up (Some have done that). The only real gain I would think is that it is heavier! The 520 is adequate given the power output - just fit the best quality DID 520 chain available. A good quality chain with good regular lubrication should give good service & long life on the NC700.

Edited May 14, 2014 by glencoeman

[Guest esullivan]

What's the definition of "long life"? I do roughly 15,000 miles a year of rough urban commuting, with the occasional weekend or two-week tour, and the chain is a constant pain in the arse.  

[Derek_Mac 1,404]

Eamonn,

               just out of curiousity, was your second chain an X-ring chain or an O-ring chain?

[Guest esullivan]

Eamonn,

               just out of curiousity, was your second chain an X-ring chain or an O-ring chain?

It was the DID X-ring, I believe. I don't have the receipt to hand and it was several months ago, but that's what I remember.

 

It was already starting to go before I left on the trip to Scotland earlier this month and the chain got fairly slack by the time I got home. It might have gotten slack enough to damage the front sprocket, maybe? That's what probably finished it off, but it didn't have a lot of life in it to begin with.

Separate question, but how do people adjust the chain while touring? The tools I use for that (socket wrench with breaker bar and torque wrench) are quite bulky and heavy. Even with the top box and panniers, we didn't have much room to spare when packing for two.

[Marte 127]

The tools that come with the bike should be enough for an emergency adjustment, as stated in the user manual,

I installed the Tutoro and never have had to adjust the chain - except when changing tyres, obviously - or clean it and it has done 24000 km already. It's the original one, also the sprockets. Once every month I brush some Tutoro oil on it.

What oil are you using for your Tutoro?

Eamonn,

just out of curiousity, was your second chain an X-ring chain or an O-ring chain?

It was the DID X-ring, I believe. I don't have the receipt to hand and it was several months ago, but that's what I remember.

It was already starting to go before I left on the trip to Scotland earlier this month and the chain got fairly slack by the time I got home. It might have gotten slack enough to damage the front sprocket, maybe? That's what probably finished it off, but it didn't have a lot of life in it to begin with.

Separate question, but how do people adjust the chain while touring? The tools I use for that (socket wrench with breaker bar and torque wrench) are quite bulky and heavy. Even with the top box and panniers, we didn't have much room to spare when packing for two.

[steelhorseuk 1,694]

This is a big problem with the NC and very frustrating for an NC owner that has these problems.

 

It does seem that some people do not have the problem and others do. I suspect it may be riding style and maintenance but I like 'esullivan' had nothing but problems despite maticulous care and attention to the drive chain.

 

My NC's third chain in 5K miles (all replaced under warranty) seems to be holding up but its about to be replaced anyway with a new D.I.D 1257112D VX2 X-Ring Chain

which I managed to bag for £60 today (Bikes now out of warranty)

 

See how it goes with this one. 

 

I almost got rid of this bike because of the problems it had particularly with the drive chain problem.

 

Mark

[Guest esullivan]

The tools that come with the bike should be enough for an emergency adjustment, as stated in the user manual,

I installed the Tutoro and never have had to adjust the chain - except when changing tyres, obviously - or clean it and it has done 24000 km already. It's the original one, also the sprockets. Once every month I brush some Tutoro oil on it.

What oil are you using for your Tutoro?

 

You must have a different toolkit than I have. I have a piece of aluminium about the length of my hand that will fit the nut on the rear wheel. I'm sure there is a parallel universe where this tool could undo  (let alone redo) a properly torqued rear wheel nut, but I don't inhabit this universe. 

 

I use the tutoro auto, with tutoro oil. 24000 kms is about the length my first chain lasted (give or take), when I was manually lubing. I didn't adjust it at all for almost three-quarters of its life, and then suddenly it needed adjustments increasingly frequently until it ran out of room. The second  chain has only needed adjustments a couple of times, but it's going the same way quickly. 

12-14K miles/24K km is *not* a lot for a chain. I would expect 25K miles for a chain.

[Marte 127]

My mechanic estimates I will do more than 30000 miles with the original chain and sprockets, judging by its current condition.

But I'm not at all convinced by chain drives. To be reliable they need to be looked after, permanently oiled, which implies having oil flinging around the back tyre area, where grip is crucial for safety. Grip and oil don't mix up well.

Regarding the toolkit, I think you are right, I would like to have Superman by my side if I was to adjust the chain with it.

The tools that come with the bike should be enough for an emergency adjustment, as stated in the user manual,

I installed the Tutoro and never have had to adjust the chain - except when changing tyres, obviously - or clean it and it has done 24000 km already. It's the original one, also the sprockets. Once every month I brush some Tutoro oil on it.

What oil are you using for your Tutoro?

You must have a different toolkit than I have. I have a piece of aluminium about the length of my hand that will fit the nut on the rear wheel. I'm sure there is a parallel universe where this tool could undo (let alone redo) a properly torqued rear wheel nut, but I don't inhabit this universe.

I use the tutoro auto, with tutoro oil. 24000 kms is about the length my first chain lasted (give or take), when I was manually lubing. I didn't adjust it at all for almost three-quarters of its life, and then suddenly it needed adjustments increasingly frequently until it ran out of room. The second chain has only needed adjustments a couple of times, but it's going the same way quickly.

12-14K miles/24K km is *not* a lot for a chain. I would expect 25K miles for a chain.

[Guest esullivan]

From what I've seen/heard, complaints about the NC's chain tend to come from higher mileage users in wet climates (e.g., year-round commuter in London), while those having fewer issues are in drier areas (e.g., Spain) and/or ride in fair weather (U.S./Canada). This is, of course, true of all chain drives, but I believe the NC's is incorrectly specified (lighter than needed for the torque) and more susceptible.

 

I was hoping Honda had improved it on the 750, or maybe after-market suppliers have found a solution. But with such varying results from people, it's hard to tell.

[Guest NCXrookie]

Not being cynical but chains ? Fed up with cleaning, trying to lube and worrying about adjusting.  Built in obsolescence.  I am using my NCX less and my SH300i more. 

[chris 357]

The tools that come with the bike should be enough for an emergency adjustment, as stated in the user manual,

I installed the Tutoro and never have had to adjust the chain - except when changing tyres, obviously - or clean it and it has done 24000 km already. It's the original one, also the sprockets. Once every month I brush some Tutoro oil on it.

What oil are you using for your Tutoro?

You must have a different toolkit than I have. I have a piece of aluminium about the length of my hand that will fit the nut on the rear wheel. I'm sure there is a parallel universe where this tool could undo (let alone redo) a properly torqued rear wheel nut, but I don't inhabit this universe.

I use the tutoro auto, with tutoro oil. 24000 kms is about the length my first chain lasted (give or take), when I was manually lubing. I didn't adjust it at all for almost three-quarters of its life, and then suddenly it needed adjustments increasingly frequently until it ran out of room. The second chain has only needed adjustments a couple of times, but it's going the same way quickly.

12-14K miles/24K km is *not* a lot for a chain. I would expect 25K miles for a chain.

The keys that fit the rear wheel nut & bolt do come with an extension tube that should give you just about enough leverage to release the wheel spindle for chain adjustment and tighten it again. Not sure they,d be much use again after that though, none of the tools in the kit look high quality. I thought about packing my torque wrench and socket for a recent 3,000 km trip and deciided to leave them and use the tool kit if really needed. I completed the trip without needing to try the tools out - but will be adjusting the chain this weekend. Mine's got 11,000 km so far and looks pretty good for now. I just give it a good spray of white chain grease when I'v done about 500km and clean it when I remember.

It's used in all weather, although I try not to ride in the snow.

Edited May 14, 2014 by chris

[Slowboy 20,547]

May be I'm a bit odd, but I gave had chain drive bikes for years, and the odd shaft drive, and on the NC, the replacement chain provided under warranty was adjusted once at the 8000 mile service (actually 7400 miles) and needs doing again after 11500 miles. It remains pretty serviceable and will last another 3 to 5 thousand miles before replacement, along with the sprockets. I have a Tutorro auto oiler on the bike but don't go nuts with cleaning it, probably about once a month. For me it's part of owning a chain drive bike. If you find this a "pain in the a##e" then there are a range of bikes and scooters that may be more suitable for your personal needs.

My opinion of course, but complaining about it as if it is a fault of the bike seems a bit harsh. May be it's because the NC range attracts less experienced people who are just learning the joys of bike ownership and meeting some of the compromises we make along the way. Either way I'm sure your ideal will be just around the corner, most of the fun is searching out and trying different bikes.

Edited May 14, 2014 by slowboy

[Guest esullivan]

Maybe it's riding style, then. Clearly, lots of people do not have a problem with the chain, and to them we must just look like a bunch of cry babies. I don't think I'm a cry baby. I'm not alone in noticing the issue -- the dealer has told me the chains on the NC don't last as long as on other bikes, and the problem has been mentioned in at least two long-term reviews I've read. The mechanic I take it to sees nothing wrong with the maintenance or tension of my chain, so doesn't think I'm doing anything wrong on that. I have friends and neighbours (with similar commutes and mileage) who completely ignore their chains and one has nearly 50,000 miles on his.

 

So, am I riding the bike too hard? I find that hard to believe. I ride like the grandpa that I am and my tyres and brake pads last ages, something you would expect to wear quicker on a hard-ridden bike. Maybe it's *slow* riding that's killing it? My 40+ mile daily commute is on the A40 and North Circular, where I'm filtering and slow riding (slipping the clutch, etc.) frequently. I ride in a *lot* of rain, which is also a killer on chains. However, all of that is true for my neighbour on his Kawasaki, with the chain that has 50,000 miles on it...

Edited May 15, 2014 by esullivan

[Guest jj69]

I ride 80km per day, a good half of it on motorway not half as cramped as the where you dwell.

The weather is surely fairer here also, but I'm basically on the same figures:

22000km before changing the chain & sprokets (several thousands km before changing the tyres & even more before changing the brake pads)

The Yamaha mechanics that changed the whole kit for me told me no 600cc+ Yamaha as this king of "small" chain anymore (530 is the least they use now)

He would expect a kit to last 30000 km or more.

 

My opinion is that the stuff is to small for the engine torque

[michael 324]

Seems like chain wear is much like tire usage. Depends on a lot of factors, most of them in the control of the owner. I am not a fan of chain driven motorcycles and yet here I am! I've got 2 rides planned in the next couple of months, one of 3200 miles and another 2000 miles, give or take. I'm planning on *not* replacing the chain this year, despite it's first birthday came and went and should have 15,000 miles on it before the end of the season.

 

I know, I know. Hopelessly optimistic.

 

As far as adjusting while on the road…I've long since given up on factory tool kits. I merely laid out each of the tools supplied on a work bench, and carefully replaced them with quality products from my tool kit. Wrapped up in a canvas tote acquired 20+ years ago, plus a few spare fuses 'n' stuff and I'm ready for just about anything that'll stop me in mid trip.  I tell me my friends " I'll keep the tool kit for you fellows."

 

The whole kit is about as wide as a fist and 8" long. Fits either in the frunk bottom or occasionally I move it to the saddle bag, in the goofy spot where the factory pannier liners don't fit into.

[Guest esullivan]

I brought the bike in yesterday, and they looked at the records for the last time I had the chain/sproket replaced and they did not install the chain I had asked for (grrr!). The chain I'll get over the weekend will be a few grades above that. This time, it will also have the Tutoro Auto on it from the beginning (rather than a couple thousand miles in).

 

Hope springs eternal.

[Guest caveman]

I think gold x ring chain kits only garentee 12000 miles so anymores a plus really.

[ste7ios 469]

D.I.D Chain Warranty

D.I.D Professional O-Ring Chains are warranted only against manufacturer’s defects in material and workmanship for 6 months from the original purchasedate or 10,000 miles, whichever occurs first.  The warranty begins on the date shown on the sales invoice or receipt.

 

D.I.D Professional X-Ring Chains are warranted only against manufacturer’s defects in material and workmanship for 1 year or 20,000 miles, whichever occurs first.  The warranty begins on the date shown on the sales invoice or receipt.

 

D.I.D Standard and Professional Non-O-Ring Chains are warranted only against manufacturer’s defects in material and workmanship for 30 days from the original purchase date shown on the sales invoice or receipt. No mileage warranty applies.

http://www.didchain.com/warranty.html

 

RK Sealed Chain Warranty

...RK sealed Motorcycle Chain is warranted to the original purchaser to be free of mechanical defects in material and workmanship for 20,000 miles of street use or one year of off-road use....

http://www.rkexcelamerica.com/images/ChainWarranty0001.png

 

EK O-ring and Quadra-X ring chains are warranted against defects in materials and workmanship for 24 months/unlimited mileage (for street use) or 12 months/unlimited mileage (for off-road use)

 

 

http://www.ekchain.jp/product/warranty.html

[Guest caveman]

My gold x ring did chains were only for 12000 miles but that was on a 1000cc twin with a fair amount of oommppp

[Guest bifferbloke]

The chain on my 750X seems to be holding up OK. It hasn't needed adjusting since the 600m service and it now has 3200m on it.

Replaced the crap tyres with PR4s last week and chain still OK and correct tension.

I don't have an oiler, but do lube it every week and clean it every 3-4 weeks (weekly commute is 300m) - I use SDOC products, if that makes any difference.

Mind you, I got 34k m from the chain on my CBF1000....

[Guest motorboy]

As stated before the first batch of chains were crap, Now Honda is saying the 270 crank has something to due with short chain life instead of smooth power to the chain it's getting a thump-thump to it putting undue stress on it

[Slowboy 20,547]

As stated before the first batch of chains were crap, Now Honda is saying the 270 crank has something to due with short chain life instead of smooth power to the chain it's getting a thump-thump to it putting undue stress on it

Big singles and big twins all put more strain on the chain than a four due to the bigger gaps between the firing impulses. In my experience around 12 to 15 K on a big twin (the 700 is a big twin, and yes I know there are bigger) is about the norm. Riding style and maintenance will all have an effect. Not letting the engine slog at very low revs will help. Big fours are very gentle on chains, my two 1000 cc Ducatis were not.

[Guest Scubalol]

I took my NC750 back to the dealers yesterday as the chain needed constant adjustment.

 

They told me in technical terms, "it's Knackered"

 

6500 miles and the chain needs replacing, not happy!

 

I told them I want it changed under warranty, the ? is,

 

should they change the sprockets at the same time?

 

Loz

Edited July 1, 2014 by Scubalol

[Rocker66 34,475]

I took my NC750 back to the dealers yesterday as the chain needed constant adjustment.

 

They told me in technical terms, "it's Knackered"

 

6500 miles and the chain needs replacing, not happy!

 

I told them I want it changed under warranty, the ? is,

 

should they change the sprockets at the same time?

 

Loz

Chains are not normally considered a warranty although Honda did change an early batch due to a fault. I think that this only applied to one batch of one make.

As to sprockets I would always change sprockets and chain at the same time.

you may be lucky and get it all under warranty but I certainly wouldn't guarantee (no pun intended) it.Not even certain that will get the chain FOC