Accessory relay fuse

[jereme 85]

I switched on my heated grips, they heated up okay but then after several minutes went off. I pulled over and discovered that the daytime running lights and 12v accessory socket were also not working.

 

Having a look it is the 7.5a accessory relay fuse in the fusebox that has blown.

 

The daytime running lights were working fine until I switched on the heated grips and so I assume the grips are the culprit. The actual fuse for the grips is fine and tracing the wiring of them I can not see any damage that might cause shorting.

 

Just wondering if it is possible for the relay to be faulty and when under the extra load the grips cause the relay fuse to blow?

 

I put a new fuse in and all was okay, rode a few miles with grips on and again the fuse blew again.

[fred_jb 10,265]

I switched on my heated grips, they heated up okay but then after several minutes went off. I pulled over and discovered that the daytime running lights and 12v accessory socket were also not working.

 

Having a look it is the 7.5a accessory relay fuse in the fusebox that has blown.

 

The daytime running lights were working fine until I switched on the heated grips and so I assume the grips are the culprit. The actual fuse for the grips is fine and tracing the wiring of them I can not see any damage that might cause shorting.

 

Just wondering if it is possible for the relay to be faulty and when under the extra load the grips cause the relay fuse to blow?

 

I put a new fuse in and all was okay, rode a few miles with grips on and again the fuse blew again.

Sounds like the total load with everything on may be exceeding the 7.5A limit.    If you have a switch for your running lights, or can easily disconnect them, try turning them off and see if the grips then work without blowing the next fuse.  Is so you are probably just taking more than 7.5A with everything on.  If it blows again without the lights on then I would suspect a fault in the grips causing them to take too much current - maybe a short which only happens once they warm up and expand a bit.

 

Fred

[jereme 85]

Thanks Fred, good plan. I will go and do that now

[jereme 85]

So, I put a new fuse in and put just the givi lights on, they came on for a fraction of a second and then the fuse blew. Put another fuse in and put the heated grips on. After a several mile ride the grips were still working fine. I then put the givi lights on as well and the fuse blew. 

Again tried the lights on their own, another fuse blown.

 

The strange thing is that everything was fine this morning (including the givi lights which I always have switched on) until I put the grips on. But now the lights seem to be the cause?

 

Most perplexing.

[fred_jb 10,265]

So, I put a new fuse in and put just the givi lights on, they came on for a fraction of a second and then the fuse blew. Put another fuse in and put the heated grips on. After a several mile ride the grips were still working fine. I then put the givi lights on as well and the fuse blew. 

Again tried the lights on their own, another fuse blown.

 

The strange thing is that everything was fine this morning (including the givi lights which I always have switched on) until I put the grips on. But now the lights seem to be the cause?

 

Most perplexing.

That is strange - did you notice if both lights were actually working before they blew the fuse?  If not and one has failed it could be taking a lot of current and blowing the fuse, initially only when the grips were on, but maybe it has got worse and as a result can now blow the fuse even without the grips?

 

If both lights are working, then I guess the next thing would be to measure the current draw of each light with a multimeter, but this might be a bit difficult depending on how they are wired up.    Have you been out in the any heavy rain - if so maybe there is water in the lights or their switch?

 

Fred

[jereme 85]

Thanks for your help Fred. Both lights were working and it hasn't been in the rain recently. 

[fred_jb 10,265]

Thanks for your help Fred. Both lights were working and it hasn't been in the rain recently. 

Very puzzling indeed.

 

I'm not familiar with the Givi lights, but are they the type that have multiple LEDs within them?   If so can you see if all the LEDs are emitting light?  You should probably look at them through some strong sunglasses to protect your eyes.  If one has failed that could be the problem.

 

It does seem like something has got worse, in that before the lights were maybe taking excessive current but not enough to blow the fuse as that only happened when you added in the grips. Now it looks like there is a problem with the lights which has become bad enough to blow the fuse without any help from the grips!  Hard to see why it should have changed.

 

I don't really know what else to suggest.   Maybe measuring resistance between the earth and 12V wire for each light individually might tell you something, especially if they are different. You would need to try the meter in both directions across the earth and supply wire for each light after first disconnecting them both from the supply. This is probably easier to do than putting the meter in line with the supply to measure current draw, which in any case seems like it will instantly blow the fuse so you won't get a reading anyway.

 

Fred

Edited September 8, 2015 by fred_jb

[Guest sykospain]

Fred, you already pointed out to me that the 7.5 amp fuse doesn't kep its cool too well when several heavy-draw items are hooked onto the end of it.

 

I'm glad to say that my pair of 3watt Cree titchy DRLs mounted on the mirror stalks are now wired in to the back of the brown lighting multi-socket inside the headlamp binnacle, across the winker beepers - so everything's now spot on, ready for this fantastic red S-DCT bike to go to Spain at the end of this month.  With all the following bits fitted in the three or four weeks since brand new:--

 

Centre Stand, Taller Honda screen, Fenda Xtenda, Rear Hugger, Givi rear rack and 27L small topbox, Grip Puppies, Fred's Frunk Power Panel inc USB outlets and extra cigarette lighter outlet with digi-voltmeter display, Honda dealer's 12v. cigar lighter In-Frunk Accessory Installation, Acerbis Hand Guards, Battery monitor input wire direct to battery inc. socket for Optimate, etc.,winker beepers, twin loud klaxons, Daytime Running Lights.

 

Finally, I've asked my dealer if he can find for the "S" model, the Sub Harness with the 4 outlets, sweetly called the "Quartet Harness" which is common on the "X" models, and he thinks he can source it.  We'll see.  It seems to be an essential mod for running the kind of extra electrical items mentioned by jereme hooked onto the Honda 12v cigarlighter / fuse-and-relay-in fusebox / ACC harness / Sub Harness kit.

 

Not that I'll ever need something like heated grips on the south-eastern Med coast of Spain !  More like a screen-mounted blown aircon unit..

 

.

 

AL

Edited September 8, 2015 by sykospain

[jereme 85]

Very puzzling indeed.

 

I'm not familiar with the Givi lights, but are they the type that have multiple LEDs within them?   If so can you see if all the LEDs are emitting light?  You should probably look at them through some strong sunglasses to protect your eyes.  If one has failed that could be the problem.

 

It does seem like something has got worse, in that before the lights were maybe taking excessive current but not enough to blow the fuse as that only happened when you added in the grips. Now it looks like there is a problem with the lights which has become bad enough to blow the fuse without any help from the grips!  Hard to see why it should have changed.

 

I don't really know what else to suggest.   Maybe measuring resistance between the earth and 12V wire for each light individually might tell you something, especially if they are different. You would need to try the meter in both directions across the earth and supply wire for each light after first disconnecting them both from the supply. This is probably easier to do than putting the meter in line with the supply to measure current draw, which in any case seems like it will instantly blow the fuse so you won't get a reading anyway.

 

Fred

Much appreciated, luckily all is well if I keep these accessories switched off. Probably leave it until the weekend now to have another look with a meter.

[jereme 85]

I had a quick look at this again this morning. Traced the spotlight wiring and no obvious damage or shorting. Opened up the lights and the wiring and bulbs are dry and corrosion free.

I then put a new accessory relay  fuse in. This feeds grips 12v socket and givi 55w halogen spots. Grips came on okay, then I switched on the spotlights and the fuse went. Interestingly the givi spotlight fuse does not blow (maybe it is a higher ampage).

I then disconnect the bulbs in each light and reconnect each one individually. On their own each light works fine even with grips turned on but when both lights are on the fuse blows. 

Previously these accessories were all working and I believe they were installed by the dealer and so not a bodge job.

 

Not completely sure where to go from here and willprobably book it in at Kent motorcycles which  will likely be cheaper than the number of fuses I am getting through lol

[MikeBike 5,006]

Is each 55W (4.5A) ? 12V socket has 1A max, grips 2-3A?

So you are on/over the limit with 55W, and of course well over if each is 55W

 

Suggest ask dealer to fit a separate adequately sized and fused supply with a relay switched from a source that's on with ignition.

Edited September 10, 2015 by MikeBike

[jereme 85]

Hmm that is strange. at 55w and 12v they must be 9amps together without other accessories. Very confusing that all worked without previously. The mysteries of electrics ;(

[fred_jb 10,265]

Hmm that is strange. at 55w and 12v they must be 9amps together without other accessories. Very confusing that all worked without previously. The mysteries of electrics ;(

Didn't realise they were halogen lights in which case I'm not surprised they blow the fuse if connected via the sub-harness as they really need their own relay switched supply and appropriately rated fuse.  The only mystery is why it didn't blow before!

 

My theory is that the dealer had the same problem, so replaced the original 7.5A sub-harness fuse with a higher rated one, but which was still a bit marginal when the grips were on.  If so it might have blown after some time using the grips, and then when you replaced with the correct 7.5A one it just popped instantly.  Do you still have the first blown fuse to check the rating?

 

If they did this it was highly irresponsible, as the sub-harness wiring is very flimsy and not up to that sort of load - and could have caused a fire.

 

Fred 

Edited September 10, 2015 by fred_jb

[jereme 85]

Didn't realise they were halogen lights in which case I'm not surprised they blow the fuse if connected via the sub-harness as they really need their own relay switched supply and appropriately rated fuse.  The only mystery is why it didn't blow before!

 

My theory is that the dealer had the same problem, so replaced the original 7.5A sub-harness fuse with a higher rated one, but which was still a bit marginal when the grips were on.  If so it might have blown after some time using the grips, and then when you replaced with the correct 7.5A one it just popped instantly.  Do you still have the first blown fuse to check the rating?

 

If they did this it was highly irresponsible, as the sub-harness wiring is very flimsy and not up to that sort of load - and could have caused a fire.

 

Fred 

Yes I didn't realize the lights were halogen until looking properly, just assumed they would be led's. The Givi spots come with a ready made harness which is fully wired with Relay, main spade fuse, inline fuse for the relay control wire and handlebar switch all in one. 

It is hard to see where exactly everything is connected but presumably the honda accessory relay and fuse feed would just be to enable the lights to go off with the ignition and not actually be powering the lights. If so that would explain why they would have worked previously (I think)

[fred_jb 10,265]

Yes I didn't realize the lights were halogen until looking properly, just assumed they would be led's. The Givi spots come with a ready made harness which is fully wired with Relay, main spade fuse, inline fuse for the relay control wire and handlebar switch all in one. 

It is hard to see where exactly everything is connected but presumably the honda accessory relay and fuse feed would just be to enable the lights to go off with the ignition and not actually be powering the lights. If so that would explain why they would have worked previously (I think)

If the lights are using their own relay which is simply being switched by the sub-harness ignition controlled 12V feed, then the power source which the relay should be sending to the lights must (or should) come direct from the battery, so have a look at your battery and see if there are additional wires connected to the terminals.  If not, then the power source may be a connector on the sub-harness which would explain the fuse blowing behaviour.  Simply driving a relay would take a fraction of an amp and should not blow the fuse.

 

Fred

[jereme 85]

Thanks Fred, yes I will get the panels off and have a proper look at what is going on. The live feed looks to be going behind the panels on the nearside of the frunk towards the rear of the bike.

[GunnerNC 69]

Once again I am grateful to the knowledgeable members of this forum as I think I am going to have the same problem as you jereme, it hasn't happened yet as I haven't had the need to switch on my heated grips, thankfully. But reading this thread I am sure I have made a mistake in the way my setup is wired.

 

I have the same set up Givi Spots (S310's) Oxford Grips and a 12v socket in the frunk. Not being very good with electrics I browsed this site, learned of the Honda sub harness and thought that is just what I need to connect my 3 accessories all through the ignition so I don't drain the battery if I forget to switch something off.

 

If I had been on top of the game I would have seen that at 55w each the spots draw more than the 7.5A fuse that I got with the harness, but I always think of lighting as being negligible, and only reading this thread have I appreciated that at 12 volts lights have to be taken seriously too! 

 

So I now have the 3 accessories wired to the harness, all working fine on their own but I am sure that the first time I put on the grips when the spots are on I am going to get the same thing happen to me (I am not going to do it by the way)

 

So now I have to check, and it's probably with you again Fred (you really should get a fee for all the advice you give).

 

I take it that I have to unplug the lights from the harness and connect them straight to the battery, My query is what do I do with the one wire that comes from the on/off switch, that they say goes to the ignition, but that I had just spliced into the live wire thinking (incorrectly) that because it was connected via the harness that I didn't need the wire to the ignition. (as jereme says the Givi lights come with their own relay).

 

I am thinking (and I haven't had a good track record at this so far) that this wire should be the one connected to the harness, it just doesn't seem right as the harness has a 3 pin socket and I only want to connect 1 wire, but is it correct to just connect this wire to the live pin of the plug on the harness and then the lights will be powered from the battery but have a connection to the ignition so they will only work when the bike is on.

 

Hope someone can help, I am sure the fix is easy if only I knew what I was doing. Just glad I read this (and you posted it) as otherwise I would have carried on with everything working fine and dandy till that fateful day when I turned my grips and spots on at the same time.

[giley 458]

I think a simple way for you would be to take the live wire you have to the lights put that into a new relay and then run new live from battery to relay then onto lights thus only using the harness as low current switch on a new relay with power direct from battery. Fuse this with inline fuse close to battery. http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/product.php/642/12v-4-blade-relay

Basically what fred said!

Edit. Much easier with a fuzeblock!!

Edited September 10, 2015 by giley

[MikeBike 5,006]

I'm just about to do the same. Yes you want one wire from the sub harness to use solely as the switching for the relay.

I've just been out today and bought the rest of the bits, and am going to add a direct from battery fuse box and a 40A relay switched fuse box (with switching coming from sub harness) so in future I can just connect accessories to those with an appropriate fuse size and put them in the space behind the left fairing.

http://www.guardianauto.co.uk/assets/Uploads/LED-Fuse-box-leaflet.pdf

Fusebox Cost £9.70 from my local auto electrics shop.Has LED's that light showing which fuse has blown.

40A Relay £3.39 from Maplin

 

I take it that I have to unplug the lights from the harness and connect them straight to the battery, My query is what do I do with the one wire that comes from the on/off switch, that they say goes to the ignition, but that I had just spliced into the live wire thinking (incorrectly) that because it was connected via the harness that I didn't need the wire to the ignition. (as jereme says the Givi lights come with their own relay).

 

I am thinking (and I haven't had a good track record at this so far) that this wire should be the one connected to the harness, it just doesn't seem right as the harness has a 3 pin socket and I only want to connect 1 wire, but is it correct to just connect this wire to the live pin of the plug on the harness and then the lights will be powered from the battery but have a connection to the ignition so they will only work when the bike is on.

 

Hope someone can help,

Edited September 10, 2015 by MikeBike

[GunnerNC 69]

Thanks Giles, that's what I think I need to do, just use the harness as a switch and get the power direct from the battery. The Fuzeblock looks like the way I should have gone from the start.

 

Thanks Mike, I like your idea to fit the box now to make it easy adding other accessories, but I really have no intention of adding anything else (electrical) and as the grips and socket are ok as they are, I think that I only need to change the wiring on the spots.

 

I will try it over the weekend

[fred_jb 10,265]

Thanks Fred, yes I will get the panels off and have a proper look at what is going on. The live feed looks to be going behind the panels on the nearside of the frunk towards the rear of the bike.

You could start by just removing the battery cover panel in the frunk and have a look at what is connected to the battery - i.e. are there any additional connections other than the main positive and negative battery terminal cables?  What you are looking for are thinner cables with ring terminals around the same bolts that hold the main terminal cables in place.

 

I suspect the lights must be powered (incorrectly) from the sub-harness, otherwise there is no way they would be blowing the sub-harness fuse, but if you find there is a connection from the battery, then my next suspicion would be that the Givi relay has been wired up incorrectly to the bike.

 

Fred

Edited September 11, 2015 by fred_jb

[jereme 85]

You could start by just removing the battery cover panel in the frunk and have a look at what is connected to the battery - i.e. are there any additional connections other than the main positive and negative battery terminal cables?  What you are looking for are thinner cables with ring terminals around the same bolts that hold the main terminal cables in place.

 

I suspect the lights must be powered (incorrectly) from the sub-harness, otherwise there is no way they would be blowing the sub-harness fuse, but if you find there is a connection from the battery, then my next suspicion would be that the Givi relay has been wired up incorrectly to the bike.

 

Fred

Yes good plan, I will start there. Many thanks 

[fred_jb 10,265]

Once again I am grateful to the knowledgeable members of this forum as I think I am going to have the same problem as you jereme, it hasn't happened yet as I haven't had the need to switch on my heated grips, thankfully. But reading this thread I am sure I have made a mistake in the way my setup is wired.

 

I have the same set up Givi Spots (S310's) Oxford Grips and a 12v socket in the frunk. Not being very good with electrics I browsed this site, learned of the Honda sub harness and thought that is just what I need to connect my 3 accessories all through the ignition so I don't drain the battery if I forget to switch something off.

 

If I had been on top of the game I would have seen that at 55w each the spots draw more than the 7.5A fuse that I got with the harness, but I always think of lighting as being negligible, and only reading this thread have I appreciated that at 12 volts lights have to be taken seriously too! 

 

So I now have the 3 accessories wired to the harness, all working fine on their own but I am sure that the first time I put on the grips when the spots are on I am going to get the same thing happen to me (I am not going to do it by the way)

 

So now I have to check, and it's probably with you again Fred (you really should get a fee for all the advice you give).

 

I take it that I have to unplug the lights from the harness and connect them straight to the battery, My query is what do I do with the one wire that comes from the on/off switch, that they say goes to the ignition, but that I had just spliced into the live wire thinking (incorrectly) that because it was connected via the harness that I didn't need the wire to the ignition. (as jereme says the Givi lights come with their own relay).

 

I am thinking (and I haven't had a good track record at this so far) that this wire should be the one connected to the harness, it just doesn't seem right as the harness has a 3 pin socket and I only want to connect 1 wire, but is it correct to just connect this wire to the live pin of the plug on the harness and then the lights will be powered from the battery but have a connection to the ignition so they will only work when the bike is on.

 

Hope someone can help, I am sure the fix is easy if only I knew what I was doing. Just glad I read this (and you posted it) as otherwise I would have carried on with everything working fine and dandy till that fateful day when I turned my grips and spots on at the same time.

Hi Geoff,

 

It is quite normal if you need a trigger connection for a relay or fuzeblock type device to take a single wire from one of the sub-harness connectors, which as you rightly say gets you a 12V supply which is only present when the ignition is turned on.   For example as well as the sub-harness I have one of the cheaper fuzeblock clone devices and I have wired its turn on connection to one of my sub-harness connectors, using a single wire. What you will need in addition to this for your Givi lights is a separate fused supply from the battery which will go from the battery to the lights via the relay (but only when the relay is switched on by the trigger connection).

 

I understand from Jereme that the Givi lights kit comes with a relay and a spade type fuse holder and cable for the battery connection, and also an inline fuse for the trigger/switch on connection, and I assume the Givi supplied wiring will also include an earth cable for connection to the battery.  If you have all this stuff too, then it is just a case of making sure the main power and earth supplies go to the battery and the trigger connection goes to a switched 12V supply such as from the sub-harness, or failing that to something else, such as the rear light, which comes on with the ignition.

 

Fred

Edited September 11, 2015 by fred_jb

[GunnerNC 69]

Thanks for all the help

I have just disconnected the live and Earth from the sub harness and put them straight to the battery, and left the single wire from the Givi switch connected to the live on the harness. Thankfully, again because of what I had read on here from others, I had routed the harness so that the connections were all accessible from the frunk so I could do this without having to remove any of the panels.

It all works fine, lights operate from the Givi switch and only come on with the ignition. (As they did before)

Now I am off for a ride to see what happens when I turn them all on at once.

Thanks to you all I may have fixed a problem that, until I read jereme's post, I never knew I had in the first place.

[fred_jb 10,265]

Thanks for all the help

I have just disconnected the live and Earth from the sub harness and put them straight to the battery, and left the single wire from the Givi switch connected to the live on the harness. Thankfully, again because of what I had read on here from others, I had routed the harness so that the connections were all accessible from the frunk so I could do this without having to remove any of the panels.

It all works fine, lights operate from the Givi switch and only come on with the ignition. (As they did before)

Now I am off for a ride to see what happens when I turn them all on at once.

Thanks to you all I may have fixed a problem that, until I read jereme's post, I never knew I had in the first place.

I'm assuming that you still have the Givi spade fuse inline with the 12V feed from the battery?  In that case it all sounds good.

 

Fred